Lords Sitting of 31 July 1866

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—Report—On Thames Navigation (214).
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Turnpike Trusts Arrangements٭ (247); Poor Law Amendment٭ (248); Public Libraries Act Amendment٭ (249).
Second Reading—Local Government Supplemental (No. 2)٭ (201); Local Government Supplemental (No. 3)٭ (202); Land Drainage Supplemental (No. 2)٭ (224); Railway Companies' Securities (240).
Committee—Suburban Commons (222), now Metropolitan Commons (250); Parochial Buildings (Scotland) Act Amendment٭ (226); Fees (Public Departments)٭ (233); Parishes (Scotland) Act (1844) Amendment٭ (235); County Assessments٭ (221).
Report—Parochial Buildings (Scotland) Act Amendment٭ (226); Fees (Public Departments)٭ (233); Parishes (Scotland) Act (1844) Amendment٭ (235); Rochdale Vicarage٭ (251); County Assessments٭ (221),
Third Reading—New Forest Poor Relief٭ (205); Courts of Justice٭ (218); Inland Revenue٭ (229); Colonial Branch Mints٭ (227); Oyster and Mussel Fisheries٭ (212), and passed.

CONFEDERATION OF THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICAN PROVINCES.

  QUESTION.
  LORD LYVEDENsaid, as he understood the project of the Confederation of the British Provinces of North America was now more likely to be carried into effect than at any former period, and that the assent of most of the colonies had been obtained to it. He also understood that delegates from several of the Provinces had arrived in this country to confer with the Colonial Secretary on the subject. Certainly no time could be more opportune than the present was for the passing of such a measure, when the United States had shown so friendly a feeling in interfering to prevent the invasion of Canada, and the colonists had behaved with such gallantry and loyalty in repelling invasion. No doubt we were now approaching the close of the Session, and there would be great difficulty in passing the necessary measure on the subject—still, the subject ought not to pass sub silentio. He would, therefore, ask the Secretary for the Colonies to inform the House, Whether he intended to submit any measure upon this subject in the present Session; whether it would not be desirable to act immediately in this matter, or whether he saw any reason for delay?
  THE EARL OF CARNARVON: It would be impossible to overrate the importance of the subject to which the noble Lord has drawn attention. I should say that, of all the questions that come within the range of the Colonial Administration, there is none that is more important than the question of the Confederation of the British North American Colonies; it is also of vast importance to the inhabitants of those colonies, as affecting their own future fortunes and the destinies of the colonies themselves. This is a question not of to-day merely—it is one that for several years has been the subject of anxious thought and deliberation by successive Governments. It dates back certainly as far as the time of Lord Durham. No doubt the chief result of the matter at that time was the legislative union of the two Canadas; still, it is clear that Lord Durham's Report contemplated the incorporation of the other British North

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  American Provinces. From that time no active practical steps were taken until 1858, when Sir Edmund Head, Governor General of the British North American Provinces, in opening his Parliament, announced the revival of the question of Confederation. That year delegates came over to this country and made proposals to the Home Government. These were entertained; but no progress was made, and the delegates returned to North America without having accomplished the object they had in view. In October, 1864, delegates from Canada, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, and Prince Edward's Island met at Quebec for the consideration of this subject, and they passed a long series of resolutions relative to the terms and principles upon which a measure of this nature could be carried out, which have since been known by the name of the Quebec Resolutions. Difficulties arose and delays intervened; and it is only a fortnight since we received what may be regarded as the last piece of documentary evidence required of the feeling in favour of incorporation. We have received the Resolutions of the Assembly of New Brunswick announcing their final adhesion to the scheme, and requesting the Government to appoint delegates to confer upon the matter. On Saturday last the delegates of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia reached this country, and it is understood that they are to be followed in a few days by the Canadian deputies. This may seem to be a very lengthy and tedious mode of procedure; but I am bound to say, looking to the great magnitude of this question and the many details involved in it, the great interest, both national and individual, raised by this discussion, I am not surprised at the delay. I am bound to say further that the conclusion at which the colonies have arrived in favour of a great Confederation has not been arrived at without great sacrifice of personal and local feeling; but it comes to us as the unanimous decision of the local Government of the colonies. Under these circumstances, I conceive it is the duty of Her Majesty's Government not only to lend a respectful attention to the representations which these delegates may make to us, but, if I may say so, to meet them half way, and to facilitate the object they have in view, so far as they are in conformity with the wishes of the colonies and with the interests and policy of this country. And when
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  I say "consistent with the interests and policy of this country," I mean that everything which can deepen and broaden the constitutional foundations of those great colonies and give life and strength to their political organization must be not only consistent, but identical with the interests and policy of this country. The noble Lord asks me as to the intentions of Her Majesty's Government. I can only say in answer that this great measure raises so many and such complicated questions that time, at all events, must be given for the consideration of them by the Government and the delegates. The Canadian delegates have not yet arrived, nor, as I have said, is it absolutely certain that they have left Canada. Under these circumstances, looking at the advanced period of the Session, looking also at the absence of those delegates whose presence is absolutely necessary to the practical consideration of the question, it is obviously impossible for the Government to submit to Parliament a measure on so important and complicated a matter. It will be my duty during the recess to enter fully and frankly into communication with the delegates of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick, and to endeavour with them to arrive—as I trust we may—at such a conclusion as will be satisfactory both to the colonies and the mother country.
  THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBY: As this is a question which affects the interest of the great colonies over which I recently presided, I trust your Lordships will permit me to make one or two remarks. I think that Her Majesty's Government act wisely in postponing any legislation on this question. It is one so vast and of such vital importance to the colonies affected that, although I am in favour of the union of the North American Colonies, I feel that justice could not be done if it were attempted this year. The question is one which demands the most careful deliberation and much consideration. Although the union has received the sanction of the Legislature of the colony over which I presided, still there is in that colony considerable opposition to the measure; and so much does the success of the union depend upon the unanimity and the cordiality with which it is received by the people, that I trust Her Majesty's Government will use the time they will now have at their disposal in endeavouring to frame a measure, to be submitted to Parliament next year, which shall overcome the objections which are now, I

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  believe, conscientiously entertained by the opponents of the scheme. I do not concur with their views, for I think that the union of the North American Colonies is essentially necessary; but, at the same time, there are details which it will be well to consider with a view to removing objections that do exist. I trust, therefore, Her Majesty's Government will give careful consideration to the arguments of those who oppose union, and that they will succeed in framing a measure that will meet with universal approval.

  SUBURBAN COMMONS (now METROPOLITAN COMMONS) BILL—(No. 222.)
  (The Earl of Belmore.)

  COMMITTEE.
  Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
  LORD REDESDALEobjected that the Bill which had been introduced into the House of Commons as the Commons (Metropolis) Bill, and referred to a Select Committee, had been altered both in name and scope, so that, instead of affecting only commons within fifteen miles of the metropolis, it now applied to all commons within two miles of any town containing 10,000 inhabitants, and would therefore affect the rights of landowners in nearly every part of the kingdom. This alteration had been made practically without any notice at all, and he was sure that many who would be affected by it were not aware of the alterations which had been made. Under these circumstances, it was a question whether they should proceed further with the Bill.
  THE EARL OF BELMOREexplained that the object of the Bill was to authorize the preservation of suburban commons within the metropolitan police district, and also within two miles of any town containing 10,000 inhabitants, or within certain greater distances of towns containing larger populations. In the case of any common which it was desired to preserve for public recreation a scheme was to be drawn up by the local authority and presented to the Inclosure Commissioners, who were to inquire into the statements of the memorial; the scheme was then to be printed and circulated; and when finally settled was to be certified by the Commissioners under their seal. The expenses of the local authority were to be defrayed by a local rate. There were clauses at the end protecting the rights of the Crown and of the lords of manors,
  LORD CRANWORTHsaid, that the statement seemed to involve an objection to the Bill more forcible than any which had been stated—namely, that it would interfere with the rights of property.
  THE EARL OF BELMOREsaid, the Bill had been brought in by the late Government, and had been referred by them to a Select Committee, in which the title of the Bill was changed, and its operation extended. Care had been taken, however, to protect manorial rights.
  House in Committee; Amendments made; the Report thereof to be received on Thursday next; and Bill to be printed, as amended. (No. 250.)

  RAILWAY COMPANIES' SECURITIES BILL—(No. 240.)
  (The Earl of Belmore.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE EARL OF BELMOREsaid, the measure had been brought in by the late President of the Board of Trade, and was founded in great measure on the Report of a Committee of their Lordships' House appointed three years ago, and re-appointed two years ago on the Motion of the late Lord Donoughmore. He (the Earl of Belmore) had, at the suggestion of that noble Lord, brought in a Bill on the subject last Session; but after being sent down to the House of Commons it was withdrawn, in consequence of the late period of the Session and the opposition which it was found likely to encounter. That Bill, however, was founded on the second Report of the Committee, whereas the present Bill was founded on the first Report. The chief object of the measure was to compel Railway Companies to make every half year certain returns relating to the state of their borrowing powers, and to deposit such returns in some public office, so that they might be open to the inspection of intending lenders amongst the public.
  Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

SHEEP DISEASE IN SCOTLAND.

  QUESTION.
  THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCHasked the noble Duke the President of the Council, Whether the time had not arrived when

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  the restrictive orders against the removal of sheep in Scotland could be modified or rescinded? The question was one of very great importance. He believed that sheep in the South of Scotland were in as healthy a state as they ever were known to be, and that the mortality among those animals was below the average. On the morrow the first great sheep sale would take place, and it would be followed by many more in August, September, and October, at which hundreds of thousands of sheep would come into the market. Unless the restrictions on removal were discontinued very great inconvenience would be experienced.
  THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAMsaid, the question had been under consideration for the last three weeks, and the Government had hoped that the cattle disease in Scotland would have completely ceased ere this, and that all restrictions against removals could have been taken off. But, unfortunately, during the month of July some fresh cases had broken out in Perthshire, and the last information received made it quite impossible to pass any order absolutely abolishing all restrictions. He was happy to say, however, that from information which had been received at the Privy Council Office it would appear there had been no fresh case for the last eight or nine days; and he therefore hoped that before very long the whole country might be declared free from disease, and sheep might be allowed to pass freely from one part of Scotland to another. He might observe, that at present removals could take place on licenses from the local authorities.
  House adjourned at Six o'clock, to Thursday next, half past Ten o'clock.