Lords Sitting of 23 February 1866

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILL—Report— Art [H.L.] (25 & 26).

CATTLE PLAQUE BILL.—QUESTION.
THE EARL OF DERBYwished to ask the Lord President a Question with respect to the Cattle Plague Bill, which had passed the House of Commons. He understood it was probable their Lordships would receive that Bill on Monday. This Bill might be considered as supplementary to the Cattle Diseases Bill; and he wished to hear, Whether Her Majesty's Government would take charge of the Bill, so as to carry it through the House as speedily as possible, considering the necessity of making some alterations in the provisions of the present Act?
EARL GRANVILLEsaid, that the Government must decline the responsibility of taking charge of the measure to which the noble Earl referred.
THE EARL OF DERBYinquired, whether he was to understand from the noble Earl's reply that the Government would take upon themselves the responsibility of letting the Bill drop? EARL GRANVILLE said, that if no noble Peer should think it worth while to take charge of the Bill in that House the Government would consider whether they should take it up.

ART BILL (No. 25).—REPORT.
Amendments reported (according to Order).
THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsuggested the omission of the word "Ancient" in the fifth line of the preamble. It having been suggested that there would be some want of courtesy towards foreign nations in refusing leave for our works of the Old Masters to be sent to the Paris Exhibition of 1867, he had looked into the question and could not find any instance in which ancient pictures had been sent from foreign Museums to this country. The removal of works of this description were attended with so much risk that he trusted our contributions to the Paris Exhibition would be confined to the works of modern masters.
LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEYsaid, his observations on a former evening applied to modern, not to ancient pictures.
THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, if that were so the noble Lord must have

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been misunderstood. The fact, however, was that in France little need or desire existed to see such specimens of the ancient masters as we possessed. The Spanish and Italian schools of painting were probably better represented than they were with us. Their great desire was to see the works of our modern school of painters, and to study the progress of art in this country.
LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEYsaid a few words in explanation.
LORD TAUNTON, agreeing with the observations of the noble Lord opposite, thought it would be better to introduce more general words. The phrase "British works of ancient Art" left it doubtful whether the works referred to were those of ancient British artists, or merely works of ancient artists in the possession of persons resident in this country.
After a few observations from Lord OVERSTONE and the Duke of MARLBOROUGH, the words "Works of Art now in this country" were substituted for the words "British works of ancient Art."
Further Amendments made.
Bill to be read 3a on Monday next; and to be printed, as amended. (No. 26.)

ILLEGAL REMOVAL OF CATTLE.

  QUESTIONS.
  LORD WHARNCLIFFEasked the Lord President, Whether the Local Authority in England could apply the county rate to the payment of rewards offered for information as to illegal removal of cattle?
  THE EARL OF AIRLIEinquired, whether any experiments had been made under the direction of the Government, not only with a view of discovering a cure for the disease, but for the purpose of fortifying the systems of animals that had not yet taken the infection? By Papers presented that morning it appeared that the Consul at Warsaw had stated that in Poland mineral water had been found a successful cure. He wished also to ask, whether the Government had placed any animals under the care of Mr. Worms, whose treatment was said to be very effective? He had received a letter that morning informing him of the recovery of fourteen out of fifteen animals. As it was quite possible that even if the disease should be "stamped out" now it might break out again, it was very desirable that if any means of cure should be discovered the treatment should be made known.
  LORD KINNAIRDsaid, before he left Scotland the disease had disappeared in one place and had broken out in another. The farmers had come forward in a most liberal way with an offer to buy up two or three lots of cattle where the disease had broken out; but the owners would not dispose of them. On the passing of the Bill he had written to the owners to say that they had better take the responsibility of slaughtering the animals; but he had that morning heard that that measure was unnecessary, inasmuch as the animals had all recovered. He knew of other districts where cure was common, and as people did not like to give up the chance of bringing about the recovery of valuable animals, they would endeavour to evade the Act. He declared that he would do his best to evade it himself. They could not expect a person to sacrifice a valuable herd when there was a possibility of cure; and when Mr. Hunt's Bill came on he should have to move an Amendment to it in that respect.
  EARL GRANVILLE, in reply to the noble Lord who had addressed the first Question to him, had to state that the words of the Act would not authorize the application of the county rate in the manner suggested. With regard to the Question of the noble Earl, the Government had sent down inspectors to ascertain particulars with respect to the cases of cure by Mr. Worms which had been brought under their notice. They had been guided, however, by the Royal Commission from the beginning as to the possibility of curing the disease, and inquiries conducted in the most scientific manner were being made under the auspices of the Commission at the present moment.
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.