HL Deb 20 April 1866 vol 182 cc1753-8
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE

rose to call Attention to the last Report of the Commissioners of Inquiry into the Sea Fisheries of the United Kingdom; and to ask how far Her Majesty's Ministers intend to Act upon the Recommendations contained in that Report; To ask also, Whether Negotiations have been opened with France to obtain reciprocal Advantages for the Fishermen of both Nations, as advised by the Commissioners; Further to inquire whether the Government proposed to amend during the present Session the Defects of the Irish Acts relating to Oyster-beds which recent Trials have made manifest. The noble Marquess said, the Report to which he wished to call their Lordships' attention was a very remarkable document, and well worthy the consideration of the House. The Commission was issued in 1863, and the Report had been only lately made, but it presented ample evidence of the zeal and assiduity with which the Commissioners had discharged their labours. The Report was in two volumes, consisted of 1,588 pages, most of them closely printed, and 61,000 questions had been put. He regretted to say that he could not agree in all the sweeping free trade recommendations of the Commissioners, although he was glad to find that those which related to the oyster fisheries of England and Ireland had been accepted by the Government, and he hoped they would be acted upon at once. With regard to oyster fisheries, the Commissioners state that— The oyster fisheries in the bays and shallow waters along the coast have everywhere been represented to us as in a state of great depression, owing to the scarcity of oysters. In many places the oysters have within the last three years almost entirely disappeared. The valuable oyster fisheries off Jersey, which between the years 1855 and 1860 gave an annual return of from £30,000 to £40,000, have, during the last three years, produced from £3,000 to £4,000 a year only. In the estuary of the Thames the greatest scarcity prevails, and the price of the native oyster has move than trebled during the last four years. This was not merely a matter of £30,000 or £40,000, but it was one which involved a serious diminution of the food of the public; the price of oysters had trebled, and had really become quite beyond the means of the mass of the population. Their Lordships hardly knew to how great an extent fish was used on the tables of the people in this metropolis. In the Report a remarkable calculation was made which showed that very nearly as much fish was consumed in London as beef. That fact would probably astonish their Lordships, About 90,000 tons of fish were brought yearly to the metropolis, of which there were some 80,000 tons of large fish, while whiting and small fish comprised the remainder. The Commissioners, while generally averse from legislation for free fisheries, recommended very strongly that a Bill (which, however, he did not think went far enough) should be passed upon this subject. They said— While we do not consider it expedient to impose any general restrictions upon the fishing of inshore oyster or mussel beds, we strongly recommend that every legislative assistance be given to individuals or corporations who may desire to form private beds for oyster or mussel culture. In doing this it will be necessary to keep two objects in view. In the first place, to provide a means by which companies or individuals may easily acquire such a title to adequate portions of the sea bottom as may make it worth their while to expend capital in stocking and tending the fishery; in the second place, to see that in so doing pre-existing rights of fishery are not unduly interfered with, and especially that the property in the sea bottom so acquired does not extend so far as to confer a virtual monopoly of the whole productive area. We are disposed to think that the most convenient course would be to empower a public Board to grant lease's of the sea bottom after making proper inquiry into the circumstances of each case. Such power should only be exercised after proper notice to the public at the place proposed to be so dealt with, and with due consideration of the interests of the existing fishing population …. And it would be more satisfactory to the public of the place where such an appropriation might be contemplated, if proceedings were commenced before the Board, and an inquiry on the spot held by them, or by persons duly authorized by them. He should like to hear that a public Bill on the subject would be introduced very speedily, and he would suggest to the Government and to the Chairman of Committees that all Private Bills relating to oyster fisheries ought to be suspended until such a measure had been passed. There were now three or four Private Bills before Parliament affecting, he believed, the best oyster beds in the world, and the persons who had to defend their rights, and who wished to keep off those who were about to invade their grounds, would be put to great inconvenience and expense; while the Committees who were to adjudicate upon those rights could know nothing of what the public legislation on the question might soon be, and they might therefore insert regulations which might be found at variance with the general policy of the public laws. The consequence would be a contradiction and confusion which it was most desirable to avoid. It was a great hardship to the fishermen and poorer inhabitants who might be affected by the Private Bills to have to come before the Committees of Parliament when the matter might be regulated so much better by Public Bills. The greater part of the inquiries in connection with the subject ought to be conducted not in Committees of that House, but upon the spot where every means of obtaining information was at hand. A defect had been found in the Irish Fishery law which rendered some of the most important parts of it null and void. The matter to which he alluded had been brought to light on trials which had taken place in Sligo and Castlebar. It was there found that though the Board of Works had a right to grant licences, those licenses might be afterwards set aside unless the persons holding the licenses could prove that there was no public right—not at the time when the licenses were granted—but when the Act was passed. Of late years considerable sums had been invested in these speculations; but the business had been paralyzed in consequence of the decisions to which he referred, and nobody cared now to take any steps until the point in dispute was cleared up and the validity of the licenses fully established. Their Lordships who had looked at the Report must have been gratified at the general state of sea fisheries. It was, however, to him a matter of sincere regret to find that the evidence and statistics of the Irish sea fisheries laid before the Commission represented a very great falling off in the number of boats and men employed along the coast. A Return provided by the Irish Fishery Commissioners, and corrected by their last Report, showed that there were 19,883 vessels of all classes in 1845 (immediately before the famine), 15,932 in 1848 (immediately after the famine), and 9,300 in 1865: and that there were 93,073 men and boys employed in 1845, 70,011 in 1848, and 40,946 in 1865. The Return showed a diminution within the last twenty years of 10,583 boats and 52,127 men. While there had been this diminution in Ireland, in England and Scotland there had been a large increase every year. There was also a decrease in the number of vessels registered as in active employment in Ireland. In 1862 there were 2,338, and in 1865 there were only 805; and, of course, there was a similar falling off in the number of men employed. The trade of Ireland with foreign parts exhibited a similar decline. In 1862 1,105 vessels were entered inwards from foreign ports, and in 1864 only 924. It was too clear from these statements that there was a serious falling off in the trade of Ireland, and lie hoped the facts would arrest the attention of the Irish Government. It could be no matter of congratulation to Ireland or the United Kingdom that in twenty years there should be a diminution in sea-going men and boys to the number of 52,000. He hoped the Government, in dealing with the recommendations of the Commissioners, would establish a close time for oysters and prevent their being taken out of season. He hoped that Bills were in preparation, and that they would be produced early.

THE EARL OF COURTOWN

said, he was well acquainted with the oyster fisheries of Ireland, and was able to state that those fisheries which had been over-fished in order to stock new beds in the estuary of the Thames and elsewhere, had been greatly improved during the last two years by the lengthening of the close sea son, which the Fishing Commissioners had extended two months. After the famine, very many of the Irish fishing boats were allowed to go to decay; but of late the spirits and enterprize of the fishermen had somewhat revived; many new boats had been built, and these were of a superior description to those in use before.

THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE

said, that in Ireland there was a law for f regulating the close time; but there was none in England.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY

said, that the Government were fully sensible of the importance of the subject to which the noble Marquess had directed their attention. With regard to the recommendations of the Commissioners, it was impossible to give effect to more than a very few of them without coming to some understanding with the French Government respecting the alterations to be made in the existing Fisheries Convention with that Government, which would be in many respects affected by the changes which the Commissioners suggested. Negotiations had been entered into by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, who had already forwarded to the French Government a copy of the Report of the Commissioners, and called attention to the recommendations contained therein, Her Majesty's Government trusted that, when the French Government had considered the subject, the two Governments might be able to come to some conclusion with regard to the recommendations made He could not, of course, say how far the French Government might be disposed to assent to them, and could only say that the matter was under the consideration of Her Majesty's Government. With regard to the oyster fisheries, which, no doubt, required considerable regulation, Her Majesty's Government were prepared to give effect to the recommendations of the Commissioners; the Bill was already in preparation, and he trusted that he would be able shortly to lay it before the House. No doubt some legislation was required upon the subject; but he believed the present deficiency in the supply of oysters was consequent upon a failure in the brood, the result of natural causes with which we were unacquainted, and which it was beyond the power of legislation to correct. Yet, by regulations, the present supply might perhaps be greatly increased.