Lords Sitting of 22 May 1865

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—On River Shannon (Navigation and Drainage) appointed(List of Committee).
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—County Voters Registration * (116); Drainage and Improvement of Lands Acts (Ireland) Amendment * (117); Commissioners of Supply Meetings (Scotland) * (118); Parsonages * (119).
Second Reading—Pheasants (Ireland) (109); Tories, Robbers, and Rapparees (96); Exchequer Bonds (£1,000,000) * (Committee negatived)
Report—Public Offices (Site and Approaches) * (68); India Office (Site and Approaches) * (69).
Referred to Select Committee—Sewage Utilization (80) (List of Committee)
Select Committee—Report—Pilotage Order Confirmation * (67).
Third Reading—Oxford University (Vinerian Foundation) * (115); Customs and Inland Revenue * (105),and passed.
Withdrawn—Metalliferous Mines (49) [H.L.]

METALLIFEROUS MINES BILL.

  (NO. 49.) BILL WITHDRAWN.
  On Order of the Day for the Second Reading,
  LORD KINNAIRDsaid, that if he were to proceed with the Bill which he had ventured to introduce into their Lordships' House, and to bring under their notice the fearful sacrifice of life which had been shown in the evidence brought before the Royal Commissioners to occur, in the copper, tin, and lead mines—for he excluded from his remarks all reference to ironstone mines—he should not have the least doubt of satisfying their Lordships of the necessity of some legislation on this subject. He could, if he desired it, show from the Report of the Commissioners that a miner's health began to give way at about the age of thirty-five; that a miner who had attained the age of fifty was regarded ns an old man; and that those circumstances, together with the constant and fearful loss of life from accident, were attributable to the disgraceful state of the works underground. He believed that if, as he had intended to propose, the Bill, after being read the second time, had been referred to a Select Committee with a view to consider a remedy for the many evils which existed, the condition of the miners might have been as greatly improved as the condition of the men working in collieries had been benefited by the provisions of the Colliery Act. He thought that he had been somewhat unfairly treated by the Government,
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  who had intimated at the last moment their intention to oppose the Bill, and as under these circumstances he could not hope they would meet him in Committee in an impartial spirit, he should now move that the Order for the second reading should be discharged, in order that the Bill might be reconstructed—not, however, with a view of proceeding with it at the present late period of the Session. He thought it necessary that he should state to the House why he had introduced such a measure upon his own responsibility. The Report of the Royal Commission appointed to examine into the condition of mines was signed by the whole of the Commissioners, and during the winter he had repeatedly urged upon the right hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department the advisability of introducing a Bill founded upon those recommendations. But the right hon. Baronet stated that the Cornish Members desired that legislation upon the subject might be delayed, because the mining interest was in a depressed state, arising from the condition of affairs in America; because sufficient time had not been allowed for the consideration of the recommendations of the Commissioners; and the last, and, he believed, the principal reason, was because of the proximity of a general election. The first two objections, however, had disappeared, because the state of things in America had fortunately greatly improved, and because the Report of the Commissioners had been published for four or five months; and in regard to the last reason, he did not think a vote or a seat ought to be at all regarded in comparison with so important a matter. He, however, offered to bring in a Bill upon his own responsibility, and this offer was accepted by the Secretary for the Home Department. He had circulated copies of the Bill at his own expense throughout the mining districts, in accordance with the understanding come to with the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and it was therefore with the greatest surprise that he was informed a few hours before the second reading that unless he withdrew the Bill the Government would oppose its further progress. He regretted that he was compelled to take this course, because of the loss of life that must necessarily result from the delay which was thus occasioned—a loss of life against which coroners' inquests were no provision whatever; for coroners' inquests in Cornwall invariably returned a verdict of "accidental

  623
  death" even in cases where the loss of life was occasioned by defects in machinery. This circumstance arose from the fact that the jury were generally composed of mine captains or others interested in mines, and that the miners themselves who could give evidence adverse to the management of the mine in which the accident happened dared not open their mouths. As an instance, a verdict of "accidental death" was returned where two men were killed by the explosion of a boiler which was proved to have been bought at third-hand. The miners themselves did not complain of the ventilation of the mines, because they believed it could not be remedied; but they complained, and justly, of the state of things under ground. A miner's life might be truly said to be constantly trembling in the balance. He was compelled to exercise an amount of vigilance with which it was unfair to tax him. That was the true state of things in the great majority of mines. Had he gone into Committee he should have been able to show by the evidence of scientific practical men that the evils at present complained of were capable of a remedy. He was aware that a great opposition had been got up against this Bill; one of the objectors being Mr. Taylor, one of the firm of Messrs. Taylors, who had, no doubt, a high standing in the mining world, and their opinion had the greatest weight. But, looking to the report, it would be found that their mines were not, as might have been expected, in a very different state from the others as regards ventilation and accommodation. There were, he would admit, several mines in Cornwall and in the north—those of the London Lead Company and of Mr. Beaumont, for instance—where the health and comfort of the men were well attended to; and yet, even in these, it would be found, on referring to the analysis in the Report, that the air was bad. He was sorry that legislation must stand over for another year, and that the fearful loss of life which occurred daily must still go on. He had no alternative but to withdraw the Bill as the Government had seen fit to oppose instead of themselves promoting such a measure. He earnestly implored the Government during the recess to employ practical scientific men to investigate this subject. He could give the names of men who would be prepared to prove, notwithstanding the prejudice that existed to the contrary, that mines could be ventilated, not only so as to save the lives of the
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  workers, but to the great adventage of the adventurers themselves—he could refer to the evidence of Mr. Angus Smith to show that mines might be tested by a far better method than the old candle test; in fact, he believed, that by the due application of scientific methods, aided by judicious legislation, the existing evils and dangers might be removed. If these inquiries were made, the question would be very much simplified and they would be prepared for legislation next Session. He moved that the Order for the second reading of the Bill be read, that it might be discharged.
  Moved, That the Order of the Day for the Second Reading of the Metalliferous Mines Bill be read in order to its being discharged.—(Lord Kinnaird.)
  EARL GRANVILLEsaid, he would only say one word on this occasion, as his noble Friend had announced his intention of withdrawing the Bill; indeed he should not have intruded at all on their Lordships if his noble Friend had not thought proper to make a charge against the Government of neglect of duty in not bringing forward a Bill for the regulation of mines themselves. Now, it was perfectly competent to his noble Friend to form any opinion he chose of the duty of the Government; but he must protest against his imputing to Sir George Grey, without the slightest foundation, motives of an unworthy character for not undertaking that task. With regard to the duty of the Government, he never was so clear on any subject in his life as that it was their duty to take the course they did, and not that of his noble Friend. His noble Friend had taken that course without any previous communication whatever with his brother Commissioners. His noble Friend said this Bill was in accordance with the recommendations of the Commissioners; but he must point out a fact of some importance—that the Report of the Commissioners contained no recommendation for any legislation on the subject—indeed they had abstained from making any recommendation whatever. It was therefore premature in his noble Friend to bring in this Bill, affecting very many most delicate questions. Such being the feelings of parties both in the north and southwest, who were most interested in the question, he thought it would have been folly in the Government to have brought in a Bill on the subject. He would not discuss the merits or demerits of his noble Friend's Bill, but he was quite sure his

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  noble Friend had acted wisely in withdrawing it.
  LORD VIVIANthought the Bill one of the most mischievous ones that had ever been brought into Parliament. The noble Lord had introduced it entirely on his own responsibility, and under the protest of all his brother Commissioners—a protest made to him in the strongest way, and founded on their conviction that legislation such as that attempted by the noble Lord would be dangerous in its character and most prejudicial to the mining interests. As the noble Lord had announced his intention to withdraw the Bill, he should not think it his duty to go into detail and answer the statements he had made, although every iota of it could be explained in the most satisfactory manner. He must, however, venture to express his opinion that there never was a case in which legislation was attempted to be founded upon less knowledge. But the noble Lord (Lord Kinnaird) had thought fit to take an unprecedented step; he held in his hand a large handbill which had been circulated throughout Cornwall, and which bore the signature of "Kinnaird," and which set forth the Report of the Commissioners and their Resolutions. On that Commission were men with the largest experience in mining matters, and, among others, the four representatives of the county of Cornwall, all of whom protested against the course taken by the noble Lord. The handbill stated that the Bill before their Lordships was based upon the Report of the Commissioners, and therefore it implied that the measure met with the approbation of the noble Lord's coadjutors, whereas the fact was that they were altogether opposed to it. The noble Lord had kept the Bill from the knowledge of his brother Commissioners up to the last moment. [Lord KINNAIRD: No!] He had authority for making that statement. At any rate the noble Lord knew that the desire of the Commissioners was that any legislation which might be proposed on that subject should be carefully considered; and under any circumstances the circulation of such a handbill was wrong. The noble Lord's handbill expressed a hope that his measure would meet with the approval of the working miners. That showed that the noble Lord had very little practical knowledge of the subject he pretended to legislate upon. The working miners were a contented and most intelligent class of men, who were well aware of the good feeling entertained towards them by their
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  employers; and he regretted that the noble Lord had put forward such a handbill, not because it had produced any mischief in regard to the relation between the employer and employed, but because it produced a very grave feeling against the noble Lord himself, who, he trusted, would not be sent as a Commissioner into Cornwall again. He did not condemn the motives which had induced the noble Lord to introduce that Bill, but he did condemn him for bringing in, upon his own individual whim or opinion, a measure on a most difficult subject of which he had no knowledge prior to his appointment on the Commission.
  LORD KINNAIRDwished, after what had passed, to offer a few words of personal explanation. He had not the slightest intention to impute unworthy motives to the Home Secretary; he had simply stated that one of the reasons given by a Cornish Member for delay was the approaching election. As to the allegation that he had brought in his Bill in opposition to all the Commissioners, he could say that there never had been a meeting of all the Commission, but only of the Cornish Members. One other Member not connected with mines was present, and his remark to him after the meeting was that the Cornish element prevailed on the Commission, and that there was no intention to propose legislation on the subject. With regard to the handbill which had been referred to, the noble Lord (Lord Vivian) gave notice that he meant to oppose the Bill; but he (Lord Kinnaird) had not attached much importance to his opposition, because he had brought in the measure with the sanction of the Home Secretary, and had complied fully with the right hon. Baronet's conditions in letting it be known and examined; and he certainly had not expected that he would be taken by surprise, and told at the eleventh hour that the second reading would be opposed on the ground that somebody had represented to the Home Secretary that there was a feeling against the Bill; whereas there had been no demonstration whatever. He had been also told by the right hon. Baronet that there was to be a county meeting. Now, although he might have no knowledge of mining, he knew very well that the miners durst not open their mouths. The evidence of very few miners would be found in the Report—and why? Because they durst not give evidence. In one case the Commissioners contrived to obtain evidence by engaging the agent in conver-

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  sation in one part of the mine, while a Member of their body and the shorthand writer were taking the evidence of a miner elsewhere. The man, however, was constantly looking round to see whether the agent was coming. He was not ashamed of having circulated a handbill to let the miners know what were the Resolutions agreed to by all the Commissioners, and that he had prepared a Bill designed for their benefit founded upon those Resolutions. He was no longer a Commissioner, and maintained that, as an independent Member of the House, he was perfectly entitled to deal with that subject. There was an unwillingness to legislate; but when a strong Report was made, stating the grave evils which existed, and recommending that they should be remedied, he thought it ought not to lie on the table without some attempt being made to give effect to it.
  LORD PORTMANsaid, that as he now understood the matter the noble Lord removed the charge from the Secretary of State to the shoulders of the Members for Cornwall, who, he said, were acting in the matter with a view to the forthcoming election. Now he denied that those hon. Gentlemen at all feared to meet their constituents on account of the course they had pursued in that or any other matter. They were greatly respected in the county, and well known for the great interest they took in the welfare of the poorer as well as in that of the richer portion of its inhabitants. As to the Bill before the House, he thought a more unwise step was never taken by a noble Lord who was a member of a Commission than to try to bring his own individual feeling to bear on a question of the most delicate kind, without the concurrence of his colleagues. It was a grave error to attempt to agitate the country on such a subject in these days, when Parliament was in every way disposed to redress the just grievances of the working classes. The Cornish men declined to place themselves under the guidance of the noble Lord; and they deprecated the sending down of Inspectors from the Board of Trade to instruct the miners how they were to carry on their business. The noble Lord's Bill prohibited anybody having a share in a mine from being employed as an Inspector, which was as much as to say that an ignorant man should be preferred to one who was acquainted with the subject. The owners of mines were anxious to do all they could to promote the comfort of the miners; and before any legislation,
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  was proposed, the question should be considered for the next twelve months or two years as the case might be. He would not say that it would be unsafe for the noble Lord to re-appear in Cornwall, for the people of Cornwall are very good-natured; but he trusted that he would not bring in another Bill in the same manner as the present.
  Order for the Second Reading read, and discharged; and Bill (by Leave of the House) withdrawn.

RIVER SHANNON (NAVIGATION AND DRAINAGE.)

  SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED.
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE moved—
  "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire how far the Shannon and its principal Affluents can be improved both as regards Navigation and Drainage at a reasonable Cost; also, how far the Provisions of the Act of 2nd and 3rd Vict. Cap. 61. were complied with by the Commissioners appointed under that and subsequent Acts; and also, how far the Results anticipated in the Reports laid before Parliament previous to and during the Execution of Works by those Commissioners have been obtained; and that the Reports of Mr. Bateman and Mr. Beardmore upon the River Shannon be referred to the said Committee."
  Motion agreed to; Select Committee appointed: And on Tuesday the 23rd inst. the Lords following were named of the Committee:—

  D. Richmond.

  L. Ponsonby.

  Ld. Steward.

  L. Crofton.

  E. Spencer.

  L. Granard.

  E. Cadogan.

  L. Somerhill.

  E. Belmore.

  L. Stanley of Alderley.

  E. Grey.

  L. Lyveden.

  V. Clancarty.

SEWAGE UTILIZATION BILL—(No. 80.)

  REFERRED TO SELECT COMMITTEE.
  On Order of the Day for the House to be put into a Committee,
  LORD DENMANsuggested that the further consideration of the Bill be postponed until a copy of the Report upon the Essex Reclamation Bill was received by their Lordships, with the view of having both Bills referred to one Select Committee.
  LORD RAVENSWORTHsaid, that as he was anxious to proceed with the Bill without unnecessary delay, he could not agree to postpone the Bill for the purpose of referring it to a Select Committee together with the Essex Reclamation Bill. The noble Lord went through the Bill, referring to the provisions of the different

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  Acts of Parliament referred to, so far as they were incorporated in the Bill before the House.
  LORD REDESDALEwas of opinion that the Bill required a great deal of consideration, and recommended that it should be referred to a Select Committee.
  THE DUKE OF CLEVELANDsaid, it had been represented to him that the Bill would act injuriously in certain cases, and he therefore joined in the recommendation that the Bill should be referred to a Select Committee.
  LORD RAVENSWORTHsaid, he was well aware how carefully their Select Committees considered any Bill committed to them, and his only desire was that the Bill should be made to work well. He was quite prepared to hear objections raised to the provisions of this measure, when the question was one as to the removal of nuisances and pollutions, because evils of that kind had acquired in many localities a sort of prescription. But it was only necessary to look these difficulties in the face. The success which had attended the Government inspection of alkaline works throughout the country, and the Report upon the subject which had been laid upon the table of their Lordships' House, showed how much could be done. He wished to offer his tribute of congratulation to his noble Friend near him (the Earl of Derby) for the courage he had shown in bringing forward a measure which had been successful in its results, but which in the beginning was sure to meet with opposition, and might have exposed his noble Friend to misrepresentations which might have been damaging to his character as a statesman. The success of his noble Friend was a great encouragement to him to persevere in a similar attempt as regarded the pollution of the water. He was willing to agree to the proposal to refer the Bill to a Select Committee.
  Order of the Day for the House to be put into a Select Committee, read, and discharged; and Bill referred to a Select Committee.
  And, on Friday, May 26, the Lords following were named of the Committee:—

  E. Derby.

  L. Boyle.

  E. Romney.

  L. Redesdale.

  V. Strathallan.

  L. Silchester.

  V. Torrington.

  L. Ravensworth.

  V. Eversley.

  L. Portman.

  L. Polwarth.

  L. Ebury.

  And, on Monday, May 29th, the Earl of Essex added.

PHEASANTS (IRELAND) BILL—(No. 109.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order for Second Reading read.
  THE EARL OF BELMORE, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said, that by an Act of the Irish Parliament passed in 1787 it was provided that from and after the 1st day of June in that year any person who should wilfully kill a pheasant between the 10th day of January and the 1st of September in any year should be liable to a penalty not exceeding £5. The time prescribed by that Act, however, had been found inconvenient, and he therefore proposed by the present Bill to enact that no pheasant should be killed between the 1st of February and the 1st of October.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read a second time."—(The Earl of Belmore.)
  Motion agreed to: Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

TORIES, ROBBERS, AND RAPPAREES BILL—(No. 96).—SECOND READING.
Order for Second Reading read.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE, in moving that this Bill be read a second time, said, that its object was to repeal two Acts of the Irish Parliament—one of the reign of Queen Anne, the other of the reign of George III.—by the former of which it was provided that Irish gentlemen who would do no work, but would go "coshering" from house to house, and all persons of loose and idle character, should be liable to penal servitude for seven years. Their Lordships would probably be of opinion that in these days an Act of such a nature ought to be allowed to fall into utter disuetude, but it had recently been revived and put in force, for an unfortunate man had recently been brought before the Judge at the Kilkenny Assizes and sentenced to seven years' penal servitude. Public attention had been called to the subject, and hence the Bill which he now asked their Lordships to read a second time.
Moved, "That the Bill be now read a second time."—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)
Motion agreed to: Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

ALKALI ACT.—INSPECTOR'S REPORT.
THE EARL OF DERBY: My Lords, I trust your Lordships will permit me to trespass upon your attention for a few minutes with reference to a subject which has already been referred to by my noble Friend (Lord Ravensworth)—a remarkable Report that has been laid upon the table during the last few days. The facts stated in that Report are so remarkable and so satisfactory that I am sure your Lordships will not find it a waste of time if I attempt to give more publicity to the facts than they would be likely to receive from their mere publication in a blue-book. Three years ago—in the year 1862—I brought forward the great injury caused in certain districts of the country from the escape of noxious gases in different processes of manufacture, and your Lordships were pleased to appoint a Select Committee to investigate the subject. In the following year, the evidence was so conclusive, your Lordships passed an Act for the purpose of placing under inspection the particular manufacture which had been the most extensive nuisance, and was also susceptible of the most easy remedy. The Report I hold in my hand is the first Report of the Inspector appointed under the Act. An Inspector and several Sub-inspectors were appointed, and I am sure I only express a universal opinion when I say that the Board of Trade could not have made a better appointment than that of Dr. Angus Smith, whose scientific knowledge is universally known, and who has conducted the proceedings under the Act in so conciliatory a spirit as to have tended materially to the success of the Act. I must remind your Lordships that the Act had only been in operation for nine months down to the date of this Report. I pressed the noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley of Alderley) to appoint the Sub-Inspectors prospectively, so that they might have been appointed in October or November, and have become acquainted with their duties. They were not, however, appointed until February or March—it was only in March, 1864, that the Act came into operation, and this Report is dated in January or February. To show the extreme sensitiveness of vegetation to the minutest quantity of the muriatic gas evolved in the manufacture of alkali, I will call your attention to a few lines in the concluding page of this Report, which gives the result of a remarkable experi-
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ment. Your Lordships may be aware that the most effectual test with regard to the condensation of this gas is to pass it through nitrate of silver—
"Mr. Balmain, of St. Helen's, after passing gas from his condenser through nitrate of silver, led it among growing flowers, covered with a glass shade. These flowers had appeared healthy for a fortnight, hut, suddenly, in two hours, they died; a less perfect condensation had occurred for a short time, hut so delicate were the flowers that, although they clearly showed this difference, it could not be traced by any other method."
This shows the destructive effect on vegetation of even an imperceptible portion of this noxious gas. Now, let us look to the Inspector's Report to see what was the state of things previous to the passing of this Act. Before the Committee we could only adduce vague statements in regard to the extent of the damage done; we had no means of showing the amount of gas which escaped and which ought to have been condensed. It is true, the Inspector says—
"That thorough condensation was known to very few, and practised by still fewer, up to the time of the passing of the Act; and it even happened that for some time after inspection had begun 40 per cent of the gas was in some cases allowed to escape, while 16 was a very common amount."
The Act requires that in all cases there shall be at least 95 per cent of the total amount condensed. The Act has now been in operation little more than a year; yet the Inspector is able to report that the condensation of muriatic acid, instead of being 40 or 16 per cent, is actually 98…72 per cent. The average escape of muriatic acid is 1·28 per cent over the kingdom. At page 10 of the Report it is stated that, gradual as the progress has been, it has been very rapid, and improvement is still to be expected—
"Practical inspection did not begin until March, 1864, and now in February, 1865, every alkali work is condensing at least the amount required by the Act, while twenty-six are condensing 100 per cent, and all the others condense more than by the Alkali Act they are compelled."
He then give a list of sixty-four different works engaged in the manufacture of alkali, and of these, in not less than thirty-three the escape of gas is nil or 0·1; in ten under 1 per cent; and only five where the escape of gas amounts to 4 per cent. And I am bound to say that such results would not have been obtained except with the cordial and ready concurrence of all those engaged in the manufacture. So far

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as I can learn, there is hardly one of the manufacturers who has not lent himself actively and energetically to carry out the object of the Act, and to make the machinery and the apparatus as perfect as possible. Dr. Angus Smith says that the knowledge of good methods of condensation was not general. He says—
"The knowledge of good modes of condensing was not general among the alkali makers; the knowledge of the amount of escaping gas and the mode of estimating it was also imperfect; and men who imagined themselves free from all blame were surprised to find that they were sending into the air several times more than the law permitted. I am happy, however, to say that in no instance known, has any act been performed to which we can in the slightest degree object, and if in some cases the delay in the alterations was greater than absolutely needful, it may perhaps be said that it was well to wait for the full proofs of deficient condensation, and to satisfy each manufacturer of the accuracy of the statements regarding his own works."
Your Lordships will hardly have an idea of the magnitude of the evil with which we had to contend, unless I trouble you with two or three figures. The total amount of salt decomposed throughout England per week is 5,762 tons. This gives out 3,325 tons of dry acid, or about 13,000 tons of strong commercial muriatic acid in a liquid state. The whole amount would escape if there was no condensation. Dr. Angus Smith says—
"If we estimate the escape of muriatic acid gas at 1,000 tons per week before the passing of the Alkali Act, or at least before the introduction of the Alkali Bill into Parliament, we may be considered as taking a very moderate view of the question. This supposes 2,324·96 to have been already condensed, and is a very favourable view of the case. The 1,000 tons left uncondensed are equal to 4,000 tons of 25 per cent acid."
And this amount, at a very moderate estimate was previously poured into the atmosphere every week. The effect of the complete condensation is incredible, for the amount that escaped has been reduced from 4,000 tons per week to forty-three tons. And this has been brought about in the course of a single year. I beg to trouble your Lordships with one case in the neighbourhood with which I am more particularly connected, to show how greatly we suffered from this nuisance. There is in the Report a list of ten works in the compass of a square mile, from which there was poured into the air 255 tons of muriatic acid gas, or 800 tons of strong commercial muriatic acid in a liquid state, the course of week. Seven of these now send out nothing; one sends out l·5;
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another 0·3, and another has ceased working. Thus 800 tons of noxious vapour escaped into the air every week, which, under the recent improvements, is quite got rid of. That fact may serve as a guide to the amount of suffering which this unhappy district had to endure before the Act was passed. It was supposed that great difficulties would be experienced in the matter of inspection on account of the interference it might cause in various manufacturing processes. Dr. Angus Smith's Report shows that condensation is carried on so completely that the task of inspection was exceedingly light, and some alkali manufacturers have been surprised at the ease with which they had succeeded in complying with the requisitions of the Act, and with which the duties of inspection have been carried out. The only other point connected with this Report upon which I need trouble your Lordships is the subject of expense of making alterations and its bearing upon the profits of trade. Dr. Angus Smith in his Report says—
"It was my belief that the amount paid annually for damages done by the escaping muriatic acid would, in many cases, be sufficient to make all the alterations required for condensation within the Act. I have received only one letter bearing on this subject; it is from the owner of a large work. The amount paid by him for the last four years has been £150 per annum for damages. The expense of alteration so as to bring condensation within the requirements of the Act has been £300, so that the compensation paid in two years is sufficient to remove the grievance so far. Considering the sum of £300 as capital, condensation within the Act becomes a saving of expense. The owner above referred to adds, 'We contemplate expending a much larger sum than this for further improvements.' When the improvement advances to such an extent as to condense 95 per cent, there is generally a desire to proceed further. In some cases the muriatic acid sent into the atmosphere was actually much wanted in the works for the production of chlorine. Its condensation has then been a great advantage and a means of enlarging the business."
I accidentally heard the other day that a new and extensive demand has sprung up for muriatic acid to be used in bleaching rags and other fibres for the manufacture of paper. This is only a part of a subject which must engage the attention of the country. It is most important, with our increasing population and our advanced acquaintance with chemical science, that the subject of sanitary measures should engage the attention of the public, and no subject can be more worthy of the attention of the Government or the labours of a

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statesman than the application of our improved scientific knowledge to the various processes of agriculture without inflicting injury upon manufactures or deteriorating the public health. I would be the last man to ask the Government to undertake, or to venture myself upon a Quixotic at tack upon the various processes of those manufactures which form the staple of the wealth of this country, and with which my own interests are closely connected; but I hope the successful results of this experiment will have the effect of allaying any jealousy or apprehensions which may be felt by manufacturers in kindred branches of trade, and to encourage the Government to proceed cautiously, but steadily, with the object of introducing measures for the purpose of removing many nuisances which at present unnecessarily accompany many of our manufacturing processes. I know that, for in stance, from copper works noxious vapours now are emitted; but I am told that where those works are in close proximity to alkali works it is possible to work the two together so as to prevent any nuisance to the public, the sulphuric acid evolved from the copper works being very much in demand for some of the early processes of alkali works. That is satisfactory, because it shows that a measure which has already effected much practical benefit has had also a collateral advantage. One manufacturer in another branch had sought the advice and assistance of Dr. Angus Smith to obtain the benefits which this Act has conferred alone upon alkali manufacturers. I myself think the advantages which has arisen in this very limited time, and from this very limited measure, is matter for the sincerest congratulation; and I trust that this improvement will be lasting and will grow greater, and that the Government and the manufacturers will combine in endeavouring by improved systems of manufacture to remove many of the evils at present complained of and which maybe prevented. I am quite aware that Dr. Angus Smith's duties are confined to the alkali works alone; but it is quite open to the consideration of the Government whether they will avail themselves of his great experience and his great chemical attainments; not to direct him but to authorize him to inquire into the practicability of applying a similar system and scientific methods to some other manufactures. I repeat that I am not asking for this duty to be imposed upon him; but I think that in his position
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he would be very willing to furnish the Board of Trade with information which would enable them safely, temperately, and usefully to proceed in the course of legislation already adopted. I thank your Lordships for having allowed me to detain you, but the subject is so interesting and the result so gratifying that I felt it my duty to make this statement.
LORD STANLEY OF ADERLEYsaid, the House and the country were very much obliged to the noble Earl for bringing this question before them, for no doubt what he had said would serve to attract greater attention to the Report, of which, however, he himself had stated the marrow. Like the noble Earl, he was much gratified to find that the measure from which they had expected good results had not disappointed them. The success of the measure was no doubt attributable to the fact that it had met with the approval of the manufacturers themselves; though no doubt the Inspector had also contributed much to its success. Any future legislation must greatly depend for success upon having the approval of the manufacturers, and therefore it would be necessary to proceed very cautiously; and although he did not at present say that any measure extending legislation to other manufacturers could at present be proposed, yet he did not dispair of continued legislation in this direction, so as to mitigate, if not remove, some of the evils complained of.

PARSONAGES BILL [H.L.]
A Bill further to amend and render more effectual the Law for providing fit Houses for the Beneficed Clergy, and for other purposes—Was presented by The Lord Archbishop of CANTERBURY; read 1a; to be printed. (No. 119.)
House adjourned at Seven o'clock, till To-morow, half-past Ten o'clock.