HL Deb 20 June 1865 vol 180 cc522-4
THE EARL OF CORK

, in rising to move that the Land Debentures (Ireland) Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House, said, he was induced to take that course because he believed that the measure was a very beneficial one. The main object of the Bill was to enable landowners in Ireland to raise money cheaply and speedily without in any way complicating their title; while it would also furnish capitalists with an easy and safe source of investment. Every precaution against fraud or accident, arising from the mutilation or loss of debentures, would be taken by the Bill, while under its provisions a landowner would not only be able to improve his property, but to pay off his encumbrances at his own convenience and in small sums, by taking up the debentures, and thus gradually diminishing the charge upon his estate. The subject was one which had attracted much attention—not only in Ireland, but also in this country. As he believed that the measure would tend to increase the value of land in Ireland, he trusted that their Lordships would agree to his Motion.

Moved, That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House.—(The Earl of Cork.)

LORD ST. LEONARDS

opposed the Motion. The Select Committee had determined that the Bill ought not to be proceeded with upon principle, and not with reference to any particular provisions. The object of the measure was to enable proprietors of Irish estates to make a sham mortgage, to get it registered, and then to issue debentures upon their property to the amount of that sham mortgage. He thought that the Select Committee had acted wisely in deciding against proceeding with the Bill, and he hoped their Lordships would come to a similar decision. They ought not to do anything to tempt Irish proprietors to encumber their estates. Ireland had been ruined in consequence of proprietors encumbering their estates to an extent which compelled them to sell at a considerable loss, and he hoped their Lordships would not, by passing this Bill, hold out additional inducements to them to effect mortgages.

THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE

said, that the decision of the Committee was arrived at by the votes of five English Peers against three Irish ones, and he thought that his noble Friend was perfectly justified in appealing against it to the whole House. This measure had been very carefully considered by a Select Committee of the House of Commons, and had received the sanction of that House. There was no greater want in Ireland than the application of capital to the cultivation of the soil, and any measure which would promote that object would be a boon to the landed proprietors of the country. He hoped that their Lordships would agree to the Motion.

On Question? their Lordships divided: —Contents 51; Not-Contents 14: Majority 37:—Resolved in the Affirmative.

House in Committee accordingly:—Amendments made; The Report thereof to be received on Monday next, and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 193).

CONTENTS.
Westbury, L. (L. Chancellor.) Abinger, L.
Belper, L.
Cleveland, D. Boyle, L. (E. Cork and Orrery.) [Teller.]
Devonshire, D. Camoys, L.
Grafton, D. Castlemaine, L.
Marlborough, D. Clarina, L.
Somerset, D. Cranworth, L.
Dartrey, L. (L. Cremorne.)
Airlie, E. Denman, L.
Albemarle, E. De Tabley, L.
Amherst, E. Foley, L.
Belmore, E. Hastings, L.
Chichester, E. Hatherton, L.
Clarendon, E. Leigh, L.
De Grey, E. Lyttelton, L.
Devon, E. Ponsonby, L. (E. Bessborough.)
Granville, E.
Grey, E. Sefton, L. (E. Sefton.)
Harrowby, E.
Mayo, E. Seymour, L. (E. St. Maur.)
Minto, E.
Nelson, E. Somerhill, L. (M. Clanricarde.)
Powis, E.
Romney, E, Stanley of Alderley, L.
Saint Germans, E. Stewart of Garlies, L, (E. Galloway.)
Spencer, E. Suffield, L.
Sundridge, L. (D. Argyll.)
Hawarden, V.
Hutchinson, V. (E. Donoughmore.) [Teller.] Taunton, L.
Vivian, L.
NOT-CONTENTS.
Richmond, D. Chelmsford, L.
Grinstead, L. (E. Enniskillen.)
Bath, M. [Teller.]
Polwarth, L.
Hardwicke, E. Redesdale, L. [Teller.]
Malmesbury, E. Silchester, L. (E. Longford.)
Shrewsbury, E.
Saint Leonards, L.
De Vesci, V. Wynford, L.
Lifford, V.