Lords Sitting of 9 June 1864

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading— Attorneys and Solicitors Remuneration, ate., [H.L.]* (No. 120); Railway Companies Powers* (No. 121).
Second Reading—Court of Justiciary (Scotland)* (No. 82).
Report—Chimney Sweepers and Chimneys Regulation [H.L.] (No. 112).

DENMARK AND GERMANS—THE ARMISTICE.—QUESTION.
THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURYasked the noble Earl the Foreign Secretary, Whether it was true that an extension of the armistice had been agreed upon?
EARL RUSSELL: Yes; the Plenipotentiaries have agreed to a further suspension of hostilities for a fortnight.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE: Have both parties—the Danes and the Germans—agreed to this?
EARL RUSSELL: Both parties. The Danes agreed to a further suspension for a fortnight, and the Germans have consented to it.

CHIMNEY SWEEPERS AND CHIMNEYS REGULATION BILL REPORT (No. 112.)
Amendments reported (according to Order.)
EARL GREYmoved to insert the following clause after Clause 11 of Bill, as amended in Committee:—
If any Occupier of a House shall knowingly allow any person under Twenty-one Years of Age to be sent up a Chimney in the House he occupies, he shall be liable to a Penalty not exceeding Ten Pounds.
THE EARL OF LONGFORDopposed the Amendment. The clause would expose householders to perpetual Vexation. The regulations in the earlier clauses affecting master-sweeps would, he thought, be quite sufficient to insure the object in view.
LORD PORTLANDalso opposed the Amendment.
THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURYthought that the Amendment might endanger the safety of the Bill in this and certainly in the other House. A case had been pointed out to him in which a householder was convicted of a similar offence under the law ns it now stood, and he hoped that his noble Friend would withdraw the Amendment.
EARL GREYsaid, that if the law really was already what he thought it ought to be he should not press the Amendment; but he had thought it most improper to fine the master chimney sweeps and allow a person in a higher rank of life, who was guilty of the same offence, to escape.
Amendment (by Leave of the House) withdrawn: Bill to be read 3a To-morrow.

ENLISTMENT OF IRISH IMMIGRANTS.

  ADDRESS FOR PAPERS.
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEin rising to move an humble Address to Her Majesty for Papers relative to the Enlistment of Irish Immigrants and others Her Majesty's subjects in the United States Army, said that their Lordships
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  might think him somewhat pertinacious in entering again into this subject; but he could not help feeling that Her Majesty's Government had been remiss in the matter. The subject was one of considerable importance. It was of the utmost interest to the people of this country, from its connection with the prerogatives of the Crown and the welfare of a large portion of Her Majesty's subjects; and it was also a matter in reference to which we had incurred a great moral responsibility, inasmuch as there was reason to believe, that if proper measures had been taken to prevent it long ago, the civil war in America would have ended before now; and if the recruiting of British subjects were now put a stop to, he believed the war would be brought to a comparatively early termination. If the cases of this description, which had been brought before Parliament, were isolated and exceptional—if they had arisen only from over-zeal or indiscretion or avarice on the part of American citizens—he should not have been apt to notice them. But the Federal recruiting in the British dominions had attained large dimensions. No man could doubt that for two years there had existed a deliberate intention on the part of the Federal Government to feed its armies from the inhabitants of foreign countries, and especially with subjects of the Queen. The sanguinary war which had raged had rendered it impossible for the Federal Government to recruit its armies from the population of the Federal States, and it now deliberately sought to recruit its armies from abroad. He was not one of those who were disposed to lay very much stress upon the Foreign Enlistment Act, because he believed that it was seldom found to be very efficient in its working, either with regard to the belligerents or with regard to our own subjects. The results had not been creditable either to our legislation, our jurisprudence, our administration, or our Government; and especially the attempts which had been made by the Government of this country to preserve impartiality in the contest on the American Continent had not procured for us much credit, nor tended to increase the respect with which we were regarded. It was a fact, not at all unknown in the metropolis or in the business world, that one of the belligerent Powers had been plentifully supplied with arms and munitions of war by this country from the commencement of the contest; and this be was told was contrary neither to the Foreign Enlistment Act, nor to the Queen's proclamation

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  of neutrality; and yet, as soon as it was proposed to supply the other belligerent Power with ships—a course which would practically have placed the resources of this country impartially within the reach of both parties—the Government had found itself compelled to take action and to assert its entire neutrality. He maintained that at no former period of our history had foreign enlistment so extensively prevailed. It was a fact perfectly notorious, that there had been approved agents of the Federal Government established not only in Ireland but also in England, for the purpose of enlisting recruits. He had received communications upon the subject from the midland counties, informing him that such was the case; and he had learnt that efforts to obtain recruits had even been made in Lincolnshire, where it would have been thought there was little likelihood of success. The Federal Government itself had made no secret of its actions. The Secretary of State presented to Congress a Bill strengthened by a Message from the President, actually providing for such enlistments, and the measure was referred to the consideration of a committee. The Bill proposed to establish a foreign recruiting department, the head-quarters of which were to be at New York, and that its recruiting agents should be scattered through foreign countries. He believed that such a plan had never been suggested any where but in America. Was it possible to doubt that the chief object of such a measure was to facilitate the enlistment of recruits from this country and other portions of Her Majesty's dominions? The law was not passed, and it failed partly because it was feared that so open a manifestation of the intentions of the Federals might excite the opposition of our Government. The Bill was what was called in the language of the country "tabled," We had not only this to complain of, but we had also submitted to what was contrary to every international law. He had by him a Liverpool paper in which it was stated that a regiment of 1,500 Germans had been levied in Germany, and that they were to sail from Liver pool as ships could be provided for the purpose. The newspaper recorded the departure of 130 Germans in the same manner as if the event were the embarkation of a regiment of the Guards. That was exactly one of those cases which the Foreign Enlistment Act had been intended to prevent. Of course, it was not
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  openly stated that men were enlisted for the army. It was pretended that the demand for soldiers caused by the severity of the conflict had created such a displacement of industrial labourers, that many branches of the industry of the country were at a stand-still on account of the impossibility of procuring workmen. No man, however, who examined the provisions of the Bill to which he had referred would credit such statements for a moment. The provisions of the Bill, according to the account which he had read of it, proposed to advance the passage and other sums of money to the immigrants, which were afterwards to be deducted from their wages. It was obviously absurd to think that the Federal Government would appoint collectors to go round all over the country and collect weekly or monthly payments, as the case might be. The money could only be repaid by deductions from wages if the men were engaged in service under the Government, and it was notorious that that service was in the army. They knew that for the last two years proclamations had been issued for recruits, that the President of the Federal States had called upon the different States to supply their quota, and that some of those proclamations had scarcely produced more effect than so much waste paper. There were only two States where the quota of soldiers was supplied proportionate to the population; the quotas for the other States were in the aggregate 322,000 men short—a mumber equalling our whole army, including the army in India. To illustrate the difficulty the American Government were in to obtain soldiers, he might refer to a statement which he had seen in a newspaper of an answer which President Lincoln had given to a deputation from certain states on the subject of the enlistment of coloured men, who were paid the same as white men. The President's answer was that by making the pay the same he expected to raise 136,000 men. In even the more wealthy States the enlistments were not at all successful. It was well known how that the need of men had driven the United States' Government to employ negro soldiers, and President Lincoln had recently stated that he expected the negro regiments would provide him with 130,000 men. It was truly horrible to think that such vast numbers of men should be wanted for the mere purpose of slaughter. In the space of very few weeks no less than 40,000 men had been lost to one army

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  alone, and from calculations based upon hospital returns there was no reason to think that that number was exaggerated. Such a state of things was not creditable to the civilized world, and at least we ought to take steps to prevent our fellow-subjects from becoming victims in the dreadful conflict now raging in America. When the pretence of inducing men to go over to America to work upon canals and railways was put forth, no one could be deluded by it in that House. They had heard of the case which occurred not long ago in Ireland, where a number of operatives were induced by a Federal agent to accompany him to the United States. Upon arriving in Boston the men were lodged in a sort of barn, where they were kept without food all day. In the evening strong drink was freely supplied, and some of the unfortunate men became so stupefied that they did not recover their senses for two days. After the men had drank deeply, Mr. Kidder, the person by whom they were engaged, visited them, accompanied by government and police officers, and informing them that he had been disappointed in the work for which he had engaged them, recommended that they should join the United States' army, at the same time tendering the bounty, specially inviting them to join a particular regiment, which, he said, was wholly composed of Irishmen. Some were induced to accept the bounty, but the others were turned out next day, and were indebted for food to the charity of their fellow-countrymen in Boston. That was the way in which subjects of this country had been treated in a town where we had a consul. He wanted to know what had been done for those men, and what reparation had been sought for them, and whether any precautions had been taken to prevent the recurrence of such transactions in future? That such practices as those he had referred to were not uncommon, they knew upon the authority of a Federal officer, General Wisden, who remonstrated against the sort of men who were sent to him, of their being mostly foreigners, and of the manner in which they were enlisted, stating that frequently they were sent off to the depôt while drugged, and refused to do duty upon recovery, alleging that they had not been fairly enlisted. In these cases the men were shot at once without trial. Were such proceedings to be allowed to continue? It was not only in this country and in Ireland that the practices he complained of had
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  been carried on; but he had seen letters from Canada, which spoke of similar doings there, and in one case mention was made of the desertion of several noncommissioned officers and men from a regiment serving there, tempted to do so by the inducement being held out to them of commissions in the Federal army. He would not mention the particular regiment referred to, because he trusted that the statement might not be correct. He might be told that all these were general statements; but even if so they were statements known to all the world, and could not be unknown to the authorities here. He wanted to know whether we were to continue upon terms of amity and alliance with a people who treated us in this manner, and who received our remonstrances with contempt? It was to be regretted that the case of the Kearsarge should have been suffered to pass almost without notice. A more flagrant case than that of the officers of this vessel in Cork Harbour had never occurred. This, however, was a question between nation and nation. How was a similar question treated by the Government of the United States in 1812? Mr. Madison, in his declaration of war against this country, went far beyond the Order in Council which was the immediate cause, and complained generally of the practice of impressing seamen found on board American ships. Mr. Madison did not complain that John Smith or Tom Jones was taken out of a particular ship, nor did he draw an indictment as particular as an Old Bailey lawyer would make it, but he complained of the general practice of this country, and said the United States would not suffer it longer. He did not wish to go to war—he rather desired to put a stop to war. When this country had been treated with insult and indignity—when our fellow-countrymen had suffered great injuries, he wished not for war, but for something like vigorous remonstrance and an assurance that the objectionable practices should not be continued. If he were asked whether, if remonstrance failed, he was prepared to go to war, he would ask, in reply, for what were we ever to go to war if not for insults offered to our sovereignty, and injuries done to our fellow-subjects for which no redress had been afforded? Why did we pay £30,000.000 a year for our army and navy if these forces were not to be employed in maintaining the honour of the country, and affording protection to our fellow-countrymen? We

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  were doing neither. We had supplied the Northern States with arms and munitions of war to en enormous extent, and it might be difficult to prevent that. But we had also supplied during the last year or so many thousands of men, and of the tens of thousands who had been massacred in this awful conflict, there could be no doubt that a large proportion of the victims had been born subjects of the Queen. He contended that such a state of things ought to be put a stop to by Her Majesty's Government. We had no business to be in amity or in diplomatic relations with a country which paid so little regard to the rights of our fellow-subjects as the Federal States of America had shown in this matter. He could not help thinking that a great deal of blame must be laid to the charge of the nations of Europe for the continuance of this war. When two great armies were fronting each other was not perhaps a time when any hopeful interference could take place; but there had been times when he thought interference might usefully and effectively have taken place. While on the one hand we took a tone as regarded our fellow-subjects to show that we would not permit the repetition of such conduct as had gone on during the last year, he also hoped that within a very few weeks there might be such a state of affairs in that country when it would be perfectly proper and possible for the nations of Europe to enter upon this matter with a firm and decided tone, and that they would take those steps by which alone he believed this horrible carnage, utterly fruitless in itself — injurious, above all, to America—disgraceful to the century in which we lived, and shocking to the feelings of all mankind, would be terminated. The noble Marquess concluded by moving that an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for Papers. amp;c.
  LORD BROUGHAM, in rising to second the Motion, wished to make a few observations on some parts of his noble Friend's statements. No one could lament more deeply than he did, not only the cruel and calamitous civil war which had been raging for the last three years in America, but the conduct of many of our countrymen in joining in this dreadful contest, more particularly those who came from that part of the country to which his noble Friend belonged, and who, he lamented to say, had in great numbers entered the Federal army. He highly disapproved of the conduct of the Federal Government, not only in the attempt, which they began but could not
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  carry out, to establish depots for raising foreign recruits; but he disapproved as entirely of their taking men — even if they did not inveigle them by the tricks which had been described—taking them even when the men honestly entered, and entered knowing what they were doing, even though not deceived by crimps and deluded under the influence of strong liquor. The men were told they were going merely to labour in the fields, and after they were there they were told there was no work for them, and they were asked, "Will you please come into the army?" But even suppose the most fair and honest contract made between these Irishmen and the recruiting officers of the Federal Government, he still disapproved of the course which they had adopted. What was their complaint against us? That we were not sufficiently neutral. That we did not hold the balance even between the two parties—Federals and Confederates. Both parties in America, he believed, complained of us in this respect; but could there be a more open infraction of neutrality than the conduct of those who compel the poor Irish immigrants to enter their service, or who take them into their service? They were taking men into their service who were guilty of an offence punishable severely in this country. These men were criminals. The crime of which they were guilty had lately been made a misdemeanour by the Foreign Enlistment Act; but in the reign of George II. it was felony, and at one time it was a capital felony The men were still criminals, and the Federal Government employed men knowing them to be criminals, and that it was only as criminals that they were entering into their service. Time was when those same Americans complained bitterly of our employing foreign troops to subdue them—to do the very same thing towards them which the Federals were now doing towards the Confederates — endeavouring to restore the Union that was to conquer, or attempting to conquer, the Confederates by foreign troops. In the draughts to supply the enormous demands which this most lamentable war had made—he believed not less than 600,000 in the course of the last two years — they took not regiments or corps, but thousands of persons from Germany, and he grieved to say hundreds at least from Ireland. The Germans formed a great part of their resources to supply the blanks which this cruel war had made. These Americans complained of our conduct in 1778; and the worst thing they considered we did in attempting their con-

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  quest was the employment of Hessian and other German regiments in the course of the war. The eloquence of Mr. Burke and of Lord Chatham made the walls of Parliament ring with complaints of the German mercenaries being taken into the pay of the Government for the purpose of subduing America. Now, these Americans were doing the very self-same thing, not by taking corps, but thousands of individuals who are foreigners into their service, and employing them against the Confederates. He wished his voice, which hardly reached the limits of that room, could reach across the Atlantic to his old friends and clients—for taking part with whom in 1812, to which his noble Friend referred, he had suffered much abuse in this country, being called at one time the Attorney General of Mr. Maddison, at all times the tool of Mr. Jefferson, and said in every respect to have given preponderance to America over his own country—a groundless charge, but it was made, and it showed the anxiety and warmth with which he supported the cause of America. Would that his former clients would now listen to him, imploring them for once—once and for all, to be satisfied with the glory they had gained; for they had shown the greatest courage universally—both Confederates and Federals had shown the greatest fortitude, the greatest courage, the most extraordinary capacity for war—he meant for war as regarded mere fighting, which no doubt a great part of war was; and they had shown that, if they were not sparing of other men's lives, neither were they sparing of their own. Let them, then, be satisfied, for the love of peace, of Christian peace, with what they had gained by that glory, and let them at the last restore peace to their country. He believed there was but one universal feeling — not only in this country but all over Europe—of reprobation of the continuance of this war, of deep lamentation for its existence, and of an anxious desire that it should at length be made to cease. His noble Friend had adverted to the possibility of intervention. He had himself refused, during the last three weeks, to present petitions from various mercantile bodies to urge on the part of the Government intervention in the American war. He did not feel that the time had yet arrived; but he lived in hopes that before long an occasion might arise when, in conjunction with our ally on the other side of the Channel, we should interfere with effect, and when an endeavour to accommodate matters and restore peace
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  between the two great contending parties would be attended with success.
  Moved,
  "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for, Copies of or Extracts from any Despatches from Her Majesty's Minister at Washington relating to the Proceedings or Report of the Select Committee of the United States Congress on Immigration, or to Bills upon that subject wrought into Congress."
  And also—
  "Copies of or Extracts from Despatches or Reports respecting the Enlistment of Irish Immigrants at Boston and Portland in the month of March last, or to the Enlistment of any of Her Majesty's Canadian Subjects in the United States Army."
  EARL RUSSELL: My Lords, my noble Friend has moved for copies of despatches and reports respecting the enlistment of Irish immigrants in the United States' service at Boston and Portland, and knowing perfectly well that those papers would be granted—for their production has been promised—he has thought it right to raise his complaint that remonstrances have not been made at Washington against the proceedings adopted at those two places. Now, it is no doubt more convenient to complain of your Minister abroad and your Foreign Secretary at home before you have the papers; but it would, I think, be more candid to wait till you have the papers, and then to see whether Lord Lyons or I have so entirely neglected our duty as my noble Friend presumes we have done. I can only say for Lord Lyons, that he has continually remonstrated, not only by despatches and notes, but, as he says, more frequently in interviews with Mr. Seward; and since he has been at Washington nothing has given him greater vexation and distress of mind than those proceedings at Boston. I shall say nothing about myself at this moment, except that I have seconded the efforts of Lord Lyons. Well, my noble Friend, after many explanations on this subject, remains in the same confusion of mind with respect to the Foreign Enlistment Act that was so prevalent at the commencement of this war. He says, "You allow muskets and powder to be conveyed to the Federal States, while at the same time you prohibit ships from going to the Confederates." In the first place, it so happens that there is that distinction in the law. There is no law which prevents persons in this country from taking arms or powder either to the Federal States or to the Confederates. Such articles are liable to capture, and the vessel

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  conveying munitions of war may also be condemned if found attempting to break the blockade. But those who carry such munitions are not liable to any punishment in this country for so carrying. There is likewise reason as well as law for this distinction. When you send muskets or powder as articles of merchandize, they, as the American authorities have always declared, are among the productions of the industry of the country from which they come, and those who send them do not themselves perform any act of hostility. Such munitions may, indeed, after reaching a belligerent, be then applied for purposes of hostility. But it is a very different thing if you have men either enlisted or arrayed in this country for the purpose of hostilities against any Power with which Her Majesty is at peace, or if you have a ship sent out from your shores for the purpose of hostilities against such a State. If the ship went, as some of the American Judges have in certain cases found was the fact, merely with a crew sufficient to take the vessel into the port of a belligerent, that might be a case somewhat analogous to the carrying of cannon and muskets. But when the vessel and crew go forth already equipped from the coast of the neutral, and with a sufficient crew, to commit hostilities directly they get to sea against the State in amity with Her Majesty, it is evident that that is quite a different proceeding from carrying muskets over from your own coast to a belligerent's coast as merchandize. Take the case which occurred 200 years ago, when 10,000 men were sent to take part in the civil war in Portugal. If you have 10,000 men arrayed and sent from your shores to take part in a civil war, the Government are properly responsible for that. But with a confusion of ideas on the part of my noble Friend which is hardly excusable—
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE: There is no confusion in what I said. What I said, or intended to say, was that one of the objections to the Foreign Enlistment Act was that it did not meet the contingency which has arisen. I found fault, not with the Government, but with the Act
  EARL RUSSELL: I am aware of that; but my noble Friend did not appear to see the reason of the Act, and a very sound and sufficient reason it is—namely, that if you send cannon or muskets they are articles of merchandize; but if you send men armed with muskets and formed into regi-
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  ments to be employed against a State in amity with Her Majesty, you are clearly taking part in the war. It is on that principle that we have not allowed ships to go from this country armed and ready to commence hostilities, if we could prevent it. We have so acted, believing not only that it is the law, but that the law is based on a sound principle. My noble Friend went on to complain of what has been done in Ireland; and certainly I am ready to complain of that as much as he is. But when we come to investigate the circumstances, the question is whether the Government or those who execute the law in Ireland are to blame for anything which has occurred there. It appears that a person named Finney, representing himself as a merchant who had lived twelve or thirteen years in the United States, engaged in a speculation with another person named Kidder to induce men to go from Ireland to America, in order to obtain the 600 or 700 dollars per head bounty money on their entering the army there. These speculators put the greater part of that money in their own pockets, and defrauded the honest, but I must say credulous, countrymen of I my noble Friend. My noble Friend says that when these advertisements appeared, holding out the hope of high wages to these poor people by working on railways and canals in America, he is at a loss to conceive how any of them should have allowed themselves to be so duped. Well, if he is at a loss to conceive how that could be, certainly I must be much more so; but I am afraid that such credulity is somewhat characteristic of his countrymen, But how is the Government to blame in the matter? If a man comes to this country and says to labouring men already earning tolerable wages, "If you will go and work in Germany or in America, or wherever it may be, I will take care that you shall get very high wages," and if people are simple enough to yield to that temptation, how can the Government be blamed for their imprudence or folly? It must be a very singular Government indeed which should undertake that no man shall do anything improvident or foolish. Well, about one hundred of these men went from Ireland to Boston and Portland. My noble Friend has truly described the nefarious treatment they met with in those places, I cannot but think that the United States' police acted a very unworthy part, as well as those who were immediately concerned in inveigling these persons.

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  But the police and the recruiting officers declared before a committee of inquiry which the American Government instituted, that when the men engaged to enlist they were perfectly sober, and that however drunk they were the evening before, they were sober at the time they enlisted. Well, Lord Lyons said, and I think very justly, that the men themselves should have been examined as to the treatment they received and the state in which they were when they enlisted Instead of that several of them were carried off as recruits, and immediately sent to join the United States' army. One of them, named Sullivan, was afterwards taken to hospital; and he subsequently told his story to Lord Lyons, explaining the way in which he had been coerced, and how he had escaped. I have said before, that I think it highly discreditable to the United States' Government, to their civil as well as their military authorities, that they did not immediately make an investigation into the facts stated to them by Lord Lyons; that they did not bring all these men to Washington, and, unless they were found to have enlisted in a perfectly voluntary manner, discharge them. Lord Lyons has remonstrated against the inaction of the United States' Government, and their want of attention. But my noble Friend requires more than this; he seems to think we should have intimated, that if our remonstrances were neglected, we would go to war. He says that if ever there was a case for war, this is that ease; and he asks, "If remonstrances of this kind are not attended to, when will you go to war?" Undoubtedly these acts of injustice are the sort of acts which are frequently calculated, unless they are redressed, to lead to war; and it is the bounden duty of the American Government to attend to remonstrances so well grounded as those which we have addressed to them. The conduct of the American Government in 1812 is held up by the noble Marquess as an example for imitation. I cannot think that this is the case; for if the complaints of the American Government had been well founded, if they had waited a few months they would have seen the effect of the eloquence of my noble and learned Friend (Lord Brougham). But it is to be recollected that the American Government at that time had to complain of what I think was a very great abuse, the arbitrary and lawless power exercised by our officers, who had seized men, and, without any proof of their being British subjects, pressed
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  them into our navy. Americans have told me how strong was the feeling which that caused. I have been told that it frequently happened that the sons of farmers in the New England States who had gone on board merchant ships for a year or two, were seized and made to serve on board our ships of war as if they were British subjects, and no redress could be obtained. Of course, that conduct rankled in the minds of the Americans; but still some years elapsed before they proceeded so far as to make it a casus belli against this country. Your Lordships must bear in mind, too, that if we were to resort to extremities we should have considerable difficulty in determining what course to pursue; for the Confederate Slates are in the constant habit of ordering conscriptions and forcing British subjects to serve under their standard. When our Consuls have remonstrated, they have been told, in the first place, that the men might apply to the courts of justice, and then, when they repeated their remonstrances, the Consuls themselves were sent away altogether. If, therefore, we have to complain of great injuries on the part of the Federal States, we have no less reason to complain of the conduct of the Confederate States; and if war is our only remedy we must go to war with both belligerents. The noble Marquess seems to have an appetite for war, and perhaps he would be better pleased to go to war with both parties than with one only. All, however, I can say at present is, that our remonstrances shall be continued; and that we shall continue to warn, as we have heretofore endeavoured to warn, the subjects of Her Majesty in Ireland against embarking in these plans, which pretend to be plans for obtaining their labour at high wages in America, but which are really intended to entrap them to serve in the armies of the Federal Government, and to secure the fraudulent gains which the concoctors of these schemes hope to make in the shape of bounties for enlistment. I agree with the noble and learned Lord, (Lord Brougham) who has just spoken, that this is a most horrible war. There appears to be such hatred and animosity between great hosts of men, who were lately united under one Government, that no consideration seems powerful enough to induce them to put an end to their fratricidal strife; and it is difficult to deal with them on those ordinary principles which hare hitherto governed the conduct of civilized mankind. It is to be hoped that these hostilities may

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  cease; but I am afraid it is not to be reckoned on that any interference of ours would tend to conduce to that end; because, among the other feelings of violence and animosity which prevail in America, there is a strong feeling against any of the nations of Europe, but especially any of the monarchical nations, pretending to meddle with the civil war now raging in that country. I am afraid, therefore, that we shall not be able by any of the means suggested to put an end to this war. Still, it is dreadful to think that hundreds of thousands of men are being slaughtered for the purpose of preventing the Southern States from acting on those very principles of independence which in 1776 were asserted by the whole of America against this country. Only a few years ago the Americans were in the habit, on the 4th of July, of celebrating the promulgation of the Declaration of Independence, and some eminent friends of mine never failed to make eloquent and stirring orations on those occasions. I wish, while they kept up a useless ceremony—for the present generation of Englishmen are not responsible for the War of Independence—that they had inculcated upon their own minds that they should not go to war with 4,000,000 5,000.000, or 6,000,000 of their fellow countrymen who want to put the principles of 1776 into operation as regards themselves. With respect to the Motion of the noble Marquess, I shall produce whatever papers we have got. Those papers, I think, tell a story very discreditable to the American Republic. All I can say is that we shall continue to remonstrate in the strongest terms, not to save the unfortunate men who have already enlisted, and many of whom have already fallen in the field, but with a view to prevent similar practices in future.
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid, he did not want the Government to take any steps for the protection of persons who had voluntarily separated from their allegiance to the Queen and taken part with the Federal or Confederate States. But there were others who had been entrapped into the American service, and he was sorry to hear that the noble Lord intended to do no more than continue his remonstrances, which up to the present moment had proved quite ineffectual. If the noble Earl inquired of the Secretary for War, he would learn that about 5,000 men, chiefly bachelors, were now embarking every week at Cork for America; that
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  they were provided with free passages paid for in greenbacks; and that as soon as they landed they were either put on board American ships of war, or sent to one or other of the American armies. While all this was going on the noble Lord would also learn that we could get no recruits in Ireland for our own regiments, and that the military authorities were actually going to reduce the recruiting depôt at Cork.
  EARL RUSSELLsaid, that if the noble Marquess would furnish him with reliable evidence of illegal transactions at Cork or elsewhere, he would at once order the parties to be prosecuted.
  Motion agreed to.

COUNTY COURTS ACT AMENDMENT BILL— [No. 70.]—QUESTION.
THE EARL OF DERBYsaid, he was informed that his noble and learned Friend on the Woolsack had called upon the County Court Registrars to report in detail the circumstances of all cases within their knowledge, where persons unable to pay their debts had actually been subjected to imprisonment. The answers of the County Court Judges had been laid upon the table, and he wished to know whether there would be any objection to lay their Reports on the table before the further consideration of the County Courts Act Amendment Bill to-morrow week?
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, he had not given any instructions whatever that such Returns should be asked for from the Registrars; but he was not quite sure but that his Secretary might have written to some particular Registrars requesting information on the subject. However, he would make inquiry, and if he had found that Reports of the kind referred to had been made he should produce them. In his own opinion, the reduction of the limitation in the case of debts under £20 to one year was the true conclusion to which they must ultimately come, but at the same time the transition would at present be great. He was, therefore, prepared to agree to the Amendment to reduce the period in the first instance to three years. He held also that a measure of this description ought to be purely prospective, and not retrospective in its operation. It was intended that the period of limitation should be reckoned from the date of the last item supplied, or of the last part payment, or of any subsequent acknowledgment in writing of the debt after delivery.
LORD CHELMSFORDsaid, he thought there would now be perfect accord on the subject, for the Amendment proposed by the noble and learned Lord was, subject to trifling variations, the same as he was himself prepared to move when the Bill wag in Committee.

COUNTY COURTS ACT AMENDMENT BILL— [No. 70.]—QUESTION.

  ATTORNEYS AND SOLICITORS REMUNERATION, &c., BILL. [H.L.]
  A Bill to alter the Law relating to the Remuneration of Attorneys and Solicitors by their Clients, and also in other respects to amend the Law as administered in Courts of Equity—Was presented by The LORD CHANCELLOR; and read 1a. (No. 120.)
  House adjourned at a quarter before Seven o'clock, till To-morrow, half past Ten o'clock.