Lords Sitting of 18 July 1864

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—On Judgments, &c, Law Amendment Bill nominated* (List of Committee.) (No. 194).
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Harwich Harbour Act Amendment* (No. 210); Turnpike Trusts Arrangements* (No.211); Ionian States Acts of Parliament Repeal* (No. 212).
Second Reading—Mutual Surrender of Criminals (Prussia)* (No. 204); Thames Embankment and Metropolis Improvement (Loans)* (No. 206); Isle of Man Harbours Act Amendment* (No. 209).
Committee—Burials Registration* (No. 144).
Third Reading—Street Music (Metropolis)* (No. 196); Inland Revenue (Stamp Duties)* (No. 198); Railways (Ireland) Acts Amendment* (No. 178); Drainage and Improvement of Lands (Ireland)* (No. 189); Administration of Trusts (Scotland)* (No. 199).

CUBA SLAVE TRADE.—PETITION.
LORD BBOUGHAM,in rising to present to their Lordships a Petition from certain Inhabitants of Kingston, Jamaica, praying for the Suppression of the Slave Trade, said, he would not make a promise to detain them a short time, because that promise, often made, was never kept, but would engage only to occupy so much as was absolutely necessary of their time by the importance of the subject and the facts he had to state He hoped they would bear with him when he said that in a Parliamentary life of much above half a century there was nothing on which he looked back with such satisfaction as his having been enabled to pass the Act treating the slave traffic, not as a trade or contraband, but as what it really was, a crime of a grave description, and punished it as it deserved; and also his having, with their Lordships' concurrence and that of the Colonial Legsilatures, shortened the three years, the period of apprenticeship, substituted by the Act of 1834 for slavery as an intermediate state before entire emancipation. He rejoiced to say that the Act of 1811 had effectually relieved this country from all share in the crime, for it had only in one or two instances been found necessary to enforce it; and as for the poor slaves, they had shown by their peaceful demeanour how well they deserved entire freedom, there never having been a breach of the peace in all our colonies. They also had shown by their subsequent conduct how well disposed they were to benefit by their freedom, of which an example was afforded in a petition two or three years ago from a public meeting in Jamaica, attended only by freed slaves; the petition was signed by 800 of these poor people, and of the whole only two signed with a mark, the whole 798 having learnt to write and signed their names. He had now to complain of the manner in which the Spanish Government had set at naught the treaty they had entered into, by continuing to sell slaves. He was not one of those who held that it does not become this country to interfere on any account with anything going on in a foreign country. There were cases in which it was not only honourable in this country to do so, but when it was a matter of duty for it to interfere. There must either be a treaty binding us, or else such peril to the universal peace of European society as in the end might affect us; but that there
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should never be interference he was not prepared to say. Here was a case in which interference was called for not only by humanity and justice, not only to relieve millions of our fellow creatures from undeserved and cruel bondage, not only to free the great continent of Africa which was now crippled and held down by the remains of this detestable traffic, but by the direct and most important interest of our fellow countrymen in the West Indies. The noble and learned Lord then pointed out the systematic manner in which Spain, in the face of treaties, had from 1817 to the present time not only permitted but fostered that traffic; the importation or diminution of importation of slaves into Cuba depending not on the action of the Spanish Government, but on the personal character of the Governor of that colony. While not desiring to advocate anything like a return to the principles of protection, he believed that the only effectual way for this country to check the slave trade would be to place a heavy duty on slave-grown sugar from Spanish colonies. In urging that a higher duty should be imposed on the slave-grown sugar of Cuba and other colonies than on our own free-grown sugar he had been supported by his three excellent and lamented Friends—Alexander Baring (the first Lord Ashburton), Lord Chief Justice Denman, and the great Duke, that illustrious man whose irreparable loss was deeply deplored every day and every hour, both in war and in peace, and all questions whether of foreign or domestic policy. His advice was surely fit to be followed by Spain, which to him owed, as an independent state, her very existence; but he never would have recalled to her recollection these obligations, for his great mind held the maxim that the giver of favours could not have too short a memory, or the receiver too long. But we might urge his advice, and pursue the policy he recommended, if on no other, yet on the ground of the immense services he had rendered to Spain. The conduct of Brazil contrasted most favourably with that of Spain in this matter, the slave trade to the former country having been suppressed; and there was now a strong case for repealing the Aberdeen Act.
EARL RUSSELLsaid, that every one must acknowledge the great services which the noble and learned Lord had rendered to the cause of the abolition of slavery; but there was here a difficulty which the noble and learned Lord did not seem to

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recognize. When this country had arrived at the conviction that the slave trade ought to be put an end to, and an Act was passed to that effect, the British Government had to deal with its own officers and its own colonies, and the trade was therefore entirely suppressed; but when we had to deal with Foreign Governments and officers, over whom we had no control, difficulties arose. Every Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in recent times had been compelled to address protests and remonstrances to Foreign Governments; still, we never had been able to secure the object of the entire abolition of the slave trade. The Spanish Government always professed to be willing to carry out the treaty; but owing to the strength of private interests in Cuba, and the consequent unwillingness of the Spanish Government to offend those who had an interest in maintaining the slave trade in that Island, we never had been able to obtain efficacious aid from that Government in the suppression of the traffic in negroes. He concurred in the tribute which his noble and learned Friend had paid to the present Governor; but he believed that that functionary had found private interests too strong for him. He doubted whether the differential duty suggested by his noble and learned Friend as a remedy would be effective for the object which he had in view, as slave-grown sugar from Cuba would still be received in France, Spain, Russia, and other European countries, and therefore the effect of a differential duty would be very small. Having on a recent occasion spoken in reference to Brazil, he did not think it necessary to make any further remarks on that empire.
THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, he willingly bore testimony to the great efforts of the noble and learned Lord (Lord Brougham) to secure the entire abolition of slavery, but he thought the noble Earl opposite (Earl Russell) would bear him out when he said that private interest was exerted to keep up the slave trade in Brazil. The Government, however, were not to blame, for it had been exerting itself as much as possible to stop the traffic. Tinder these circumstances he felt that the condemnation cast upon the Brazilian Government in another place by the noble Lord at the head of Her Majesty's Government was calculated unjustly to wound the feelings of that Government. He now wished to repeat what he had told their Lordships on a former occasion, that the
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time had arrived, or nearly arrived, when Lord Aberdeen's Act might be done away with. In the last conversation he had with the late Earl of Aberdeen, that noble Earl said that the time had arrived when it would afford him great pleasure to see the Act repealed.
LORD BROUGHAMexpressed his opinion, that the Act of the United States Government giving us the right of search was a most important one. He believed that in the course of the next two months events at the other side of the Atlantic would render it expedient, and if expedient desirable, for England and France to use their good offices in endeavouring to put an end to that cruel war between the North and South which every friend of humanity must deplore.
Petition to lie on the table.

JUDGMENTS, &C., LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
Select Committee nominated,* The Lords following were named of the Committee; the Committee to meet on Friday next, at Eleven o'clock; and to appoint their own Chairman:—Ld. Chancellor, Ld. Steward, E. Shaftesbury, E. Romney, L. Wodehouse, L. Cranworth, L. Saint Leonards, L. Wensleydale, L. Chelmsford, L. Kingsdown, L. Lyveden.
House adjourned at half past Six o'clock, till To-morrow, Eleven o'clock.