Lords Sitting of 5 July 1864

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—Second Reading—Salmon Fishing (Scotland) Acts Amendment (No. 2)* (No. 167); Local Government Supplemental* (No. 174).
Committee—Facilities for Divine Service in Collegiate Schools* (No. 183); Public and Refreshment Houses (Metropolis, &c.) (No. 184); Greek Loan* (No. 171).
Report—Clerks of the Peace Removal* (No. 179); Greek Loan* (No. 171); Pilotage Order Confirmation* (No. 180).
Third Reading—Government Annuities, &c.* (No. 145); Superannuation (Union Offices)* (No. 154).
Withdrawn—Bribery* (No. 155).

ALLEGED REVIVAL OF "THE HOLY ALLIANCE."

  QUESTION. NOTICE.
  VISCOUNT STRATFORD DE REDCLIFFE: My Lords, it is on the ground of personal explanation that I claim your Lordships' indulgence for a few moments. On referring to the morning papers which I am most in the habit of reading, I find that the notice I gave, or intended to give here, yesterday, was not stated with the accuracy which usually characterizes the Reports of your Lordships' proceedings. The main point of my Notice is nearly or altogether omitted, and words are put into my mouth—unintentionally, no doubt—which it was not my intention to express. Without complaining of this confusion, no doubt accidental, I wish to state that the Notice had principally in view the prevailing rumours of the revival of the so called Holy Alliance. It was only in connection with that I referred to the remarkable Correspondence which was published, as your Lordships are aware, in a well-known morning print (The Morning Post) yesterday and on the previous Saturday. On the merits of that Correspondence I passed no judgment. It was not for me to moot whether the Correspondence be really authentic, as maintained by the paper in question, or fabricated, as declared on high official authority. A declaration coming from the Prussian Government, a Power in friendly connection with Her Majesty, must necessarily command my entire respect. Supposing the Correspondence to be a mere fabrication, no one would be readier than myself to condemn so disgraceful and unwarrantable a deception; but the circumstance which I have already brought to the knowledge of your Lordships is not affected by the character of the Correspondence, whatever it may be. I repeat that the despatches published yesterday in extracts and translation were shown to me many weeks ago in the French language, and, so far as I can recollect, substantially the same as those just published by a gentleman of undoubted respectability. This fact is, however, no proof of the authenticity of these documents, though many persons may think it gives these documents some additional claim to attention, and it certainly goes far to exonerate the publisher from any suspicion of complicity in practising on the credulity of the public. With respect to my intended Notice, the
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  forms of the House do not admit of any proceeding with it at the present moment, and I propose to defer its consideration to a more convenient opportunity. Of the three remaining nights in this week, two are assigned preferentially to the Orders of the Day, and a very important Motion stands on your Lordships' Minutes for Friday. It only remains for me at present to lay my Notice on the table. It will stand for Friday, the 15th instant.
  VISCOUNT STRATFORD DE RED-CLIFFEthen gave Notice
  "To draw attention to the prevailing rumours concerning a supposed revival of the so-called Holy Alliance, and to inquire whether Her Majesty's Ministers have any information thereon which may be communicated to Parliament without prejudice to the Public Service."

DENMARK AND GERMANY— ALLEGED PRUSSIAN ATROCITIES.

  QUESTION.
  THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY: My Lords, seeing my noble Friend the Foreign Secretary in his place, I take the opportunity of putting the Question to him of which I have given him notice. In The Globe of last night there appeared a telegram to this effect—"On a partial clearance of the battle-field yesterday 400 Swedish volunteers were discovered, to whom no quarter was given." What we have to gather from this telegram is, that 400 wounded men lying on the battle-field were bayonetted in their helplessness by the Prussian soldiers. I wish to know from the noble Lord whether he can give us any information on this matter; and if he cannot do so at present, whether he will be good enough to make inquiries and to give to the House and the country the benefit of the information which he succeeds in eliciting. I myself will go the length of saying that I believe every syllable of this statement, and I will tell the House my reason for doing so. I think the conduct of the Prussian troops in the bombardment of Sonderborg and in massacring helpless women and children is in itself a proof of the capability of these troops to perform such an act of cowardly violence as is here ascribed to them. This very morning I heard a story strongly corroborative of the disposition of the Prussian troops to perpetrate such enormities. At the siege of Duppel a Swedish officer, seriously wounded, was left upon the field, and the Prussian soldiers coming up and seeing that he

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  was alive bayonetted him three times upon the ground and left him for dead. By the blessing of God, life was not extinct; he lived to recover and to tell the story to his brother, who is a meritorious officer in Her Majesty's service. In the interests of civilization and Christianity it is very desirable that the story told in this telegram should be disproved. I therefore hope that the noble Lord will be able to obtain from the Prussian Government information not only that the statement in question is untrue, but that the authorities in that country view with as complete abhorrence as our-selves acts of such atrocity.
  EARL RUSSELL: I can only say that no notice is taken of such an occurrence in any of the despatches received by Her Majesty's Government. I shall, of course, make the requisite inquiries.
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEre-minded his noble Friend and the House that the barbarous act alleged to have taken place, but which until it was con-firmed he should not implicitly believe, was by no means isolated in its character. On former occasions similar atrocities had been among the strongest inducements to this country to embark in war, especially at the time of the French Revolution. He I trusted his noble Friend would take care to ascertain from good authority the facts as they really had occurred.

BRIBERY BILL.—QUESTION.
LORD CRANWORTHwished to ask the I noble and learned Lord opposite (Lord Brougham) whether it was his intention to proceed further this Session with the Bill in which he had interested himself.
LORD BROUGHAMsaid, it was not his intention to proceed further with the Bribery Bill this Session. He was bound to believe that the Members of the other House were resolved, if possible, to pre-vent bribery and corruption, and if such was their resolution they might, by a Standing Order, require every Member on taking his seat to make a declaration that his return had not been procured by corrupt means.

FACILITIES FOR DIVINE SERVICE IN COLLEGIATE SCHOOLS BILL—(No. 183)

  COMMITTEE.
  House in Committee (according to Order).
  THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY moved the addition of a clause, securing to the
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  parish the advantage of all contributions to the offertory, whether held in the parish church or in the school chapels.
  THE BISHOP OF OXFORDopposed the Amendment. When there was a school service in a parochial church the offertory money ought to be at the disposal of the clergyman; but when the service was held in the school chapel, the application of the money ought to be settled by the authorities of the school.
  After short discussion, clause negatived.
  Amendment made; the Report thereof to be received on Thursday next; and Bill to be printed as amended (No. 183).

PUBLIC AND REFRESHMENT HOUSES (METROPOLIS) BILL—(No. 184.)

  COMMITTEE.
  House in Committee (according to order).
  On Clause 2,
  THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE moved the omission of the words which give power to Town Councils to adopt the provisions of the Bill if they think fit.
  EARL GRANVILLEopposed the amendment.
  Moved, To omit from ("and") to the end of the clause.
  After short discussion—
  On Question, Whether the words proposed to be omitted shall stand part of the clause?
  Their Lordships divided: Contents, 31; Not-Contents, 24; Majority, 7.
  Amendments made; the Report thereof to be received on Monday next; and Bill to be printed as amended (No. 184).

  CONTENTS.

  Westbury, L. (L. Chancellor).

  Saint Germans, E.

  Shaftesbury, E.

  Armagh, Archbp.

  Sydney, V.

  Torrington, V.

  Devonshire, D.

  Grafton, D.

  Cork, &c, Bp.

  Somerset, D.

  Down, &c., Bp.

  Caithness, E.

  Belper, L.

  Chichester, E.

  Camoys, L.

  DeGrey, E.

  Churchill, L.

  Granville, E.

  Cranworth, L.

  Russell, E.

  Crewe, L.

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  Foley, L. [Teller.]

  Portman, L.

  Hamilton, L. (L. Belhaven and Stenton).

  Stanley of Alderley, L.

  Sundridge, L. (D. Argyll).

  Hatherton, L.

  Mostyn, L.

  Wodehouse, L.

  Ponsonby, L. (E. Bessborough) [Teller.]

  Wrottesley, L.

  NOT-CONTENTS.

  Bath, M.

  Hutchinson, V (E. Donoughmore) [Teller.]

  Amherst, E.

  Sidmouth, V.

  Bandon, E.

  Carnarvon, E.

  Abinger, L.

  Graham, E. (D. Montrose).

  Bagot, L.

  Boyle, L. (E. Cork and Orrery).

  Malmesbury, E.

  Minto, E.

  Calthorpe, L.

  Nelson, E.

  Churston, L.

  Powis, E.

  Colville of Culross, L.

  Romney, E.

  Egerton, L. [Teller.]

  Shrewsbury, E.

  Inchiquin, L.

  Polwarth, L.

  Hawarden, V.

  Redesdale, L.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT SUPPLEMENTAL (NO. 2) BILL— [NO. 174]

  SECOND READING.
  Moved, as regards the Local Government Supplemental (No. 2) Bill, That the Resolution of the House of the 21st April last, "That no Bill confirming any Provisional Order of the Board of Health, or authorizing any Inclosure of Lands under special Report of the Inclosure Commissioners for England and Wales, or for confirming any Scheme of the Charity Commissioners for England and Wales, shall be read a Second Time after Tuesday, the 30th Day of June next," be suspended, and that, on the Ground of special Reasons, the said Local Government Supplemental (No. 2) Bill be read a Second Time; agreed to (The Lord Stanley of Alderley):
  Bill read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.
  House adjourned at a quarter before Seven o'clock, till To-morrow half-past Ten o'clock.