§ THE EARL OF DERBYMy Lords, on Tuesday last I took the liberty of privately directing the attention of the Secretary of State for War to what appeared to me a very remarkable report contained in a Liverpool paper of that date, of a trial that had taken place on the preceding day of a cannon new in construction. It seems to be founded upon a principle not only new in itself, but very much at variance with, and in opposition to that received and acted upon in such matters Till now it has been a leading principle in gunnery that the windage shall be diminished as much as possible. In this new gun, on the contrary, the principle is to utilize the windage and make it serviceable to the purposes of the gun. The projectile used is a smooth cylindrical bolt fitting accurately the interior of the cannon. The cannon, however, is rifled, or rather spirally grooved; and the principle is that the gas having room to escape passes up the grooves and gives the bolt the rotatory motion essential to such a projectile. It is clear that if this principle can be established it will much reduce the necessity for heavy guns to give sufficient strength to bear the charge of powder, and it will also diminish the amount of recoil. It is stated that the initial velocity obtained at the trial the other day was remarkably high. The gun was manufactured at the well known Mersey Steel and Iron Works. It weighs nine tons, and has a bore of 8.12 inches. At the experimental trial the other day, it was fired with a charge of 30 lbs. of powder and a steel projectile weighing 167 lbs., at a range of 200 yards. The target was constructed to represent the side of the Agincourt, now constructing in Messrs. Laird's yard for the Government. It was 7 feet square, and consisted of an outer plate 5½ inches thick, of rolled iron; next came 9 inches of teak, then an inner plate of iron three-fourths of an inch thick; then angle iron and ribbing, and finally, a backing up of timber balks and supports 18 inches thick. The bolt struck the target near the centre. It drilled a round hole through the plates of iron, shattered the inside of the woodwork into splinters, and not only passed through the whole thickness of the target, but was landed on the beach many yards beyond the target, carrying with it —and this was the remarkable point of 1177 the whole—a plug of iron it had drilled out of the plate in its progress. If this statement is correct it does appear to be a very extraordinary performance. What is remarkable is that the plug of iron and bolt were found near together, and the marks in the sand showed that the rotatory motion had been continued to the very last. The bolt itself was perfectly sound and entire, although the force of the impact had diminished its length and added to its breadth. This was the only shot fired—the target having been so completely deranged as to be unfit for further experiments—but it appears to have been a most remarkable success. I do not think anything was done to test the extent of range; but the principle is so new, and if it can be satisfactorily carried out, so important in every respect, and the success of the gun appears to have been so great, that I took the liberty the other day of calling the attention of the Secretary for War to it, and requested him to make some inquiry in to the matter. I believe the noble Earl sent down an officer to examine and report upon the subject, and I would ask him now what report has been given, and whether it boars out to the full the details given in the newspapers? If it does, this gun, which is the invention of a Mr. Mackay, seems to me a very formidable rival to those of Sir William Armstrong and Mr. Whitworth.
EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, he was very much obliged to the noble Earl for calling his attention to the statements concerning this gun, by which he received information a few hours earlier than they would otherwise have come under his notice. He had lost no time in sending an officer down to Liverpool to make inquiries as to the character of the gun and the results which had been obtained. The statements of the noble Earl were confirmed in regard to the main features of the gun by the report which he had received from the officer engaged in the investigation. The size and force of the projectile, the amount of the charge, and the general form of the gun, tallied with the description which had been given by the newspapers. There was some doubt as to the initial velocity, because the exact nature of the instrument used in testing it was not known. The instrument used in our trials is a foreign one of very delicate construction; of the one used in this case we know nothing, and, therefore, I do not know whether the results can be 1178 accurately compared. But, in the main features, the results as described by the noble Earl are correct. It might naturally he supposed that when windage could be turned to account, an advantage I would be gained as to the weight of the gun, and the amount of the charge used. In these respects, however, there was scarcely any advantage on the part of the new gun over others which had obtained very similar results. The range at which the Mackay gun was tried was very short —only 200 yards; its weight was nine tons; and the charge of powder 30lb. At the same time, the results of the experiment were curious and interesting, and it would be desirable to make further inquiries. Their Lordships would however, perhaps, permit him to compare the results obtained by this gun with those of a few other experiments made by the Government with guns somewhat similar. A 150-ponnder smooth-bore Armstrong gun was fired at 200 yards, with a cast-iron shot of 150 lb., and a charge of 50lb., against a target representing a side of the Minotaur, and consisting of 5½ in. iron plate, backed by 9in. teak. Here the shot was cast-iron (that used with the Mackay gun being of steel) and, like all cast-iron shot, it broke up. The pieces were driven completely through the target, and the front portion of the plate which was struck was found 15 feet in the rear. The same gun, with the same shot and charge, was tried with the same results on another occasion. Then a Whitworth 120-pounder, with a steel shell of 151 lb., and a charge of 27 lb., was fired at 800 yards range. The shell penetrated the plate and burst between the plate and the teak. On a second occasion the result was still more satisfactory. He would now compare this gun with the smooth-bored gun known by the name of the Duke of Somerset's gun, used with a lighter charge. That gun—a smooth-bored wrought-iron 100-pounder of six tons—was fired against the side of the Monarch, having a 5½in. plate, so that the thickness of the iron was precisely the same as in the target referred to by the noble Earl, but the backing was somewhat slighter. The distance at which the gun was fired was the same—namely, 200 yards; the shot weighed 115lb., and the charge was 25lb.
§ THE EARL OF DERBYexplained that he had stated that, in the experiment to which he alluded, behind the iron 1179 there was a backing of teak, then came another plate of iron, and behind that again thick timber.
EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, he would read a description, which would explain the construction of the target used by Mr. Mackay. The target was about 7ft. square, formed of two 5½in. plates, each about 3ft. 6in. in breadth, laid horizontally. They were backed by 9 inches of teak, with an inner skin of iron ¾in. thick, the whole secured by angle iron, and supported at the back by upright beams of timber, and struts 16 to 18 in. square at each end. All he wished to show was that they could not draw any decided conclusions from these experiments. The distance was short, but the result obtained by the smooth-bore gun seemed good. The matter was worth inquiring into, but he had not at present sufficient information to enable him to give a decided opinion as to the real merits of the gun.
§ THE EARL OF HARDWICKEsaid, that his noble Friend (the Earl of Derby), though not an artillerist, had been able to state his case with such clearness and accuracy, that anybody could perfectly understand it. The noble Duke opposite (the Duke of Somerset) was the inventor of a cannon, and he would, therefore, comprehend the importance of this discussion. The Channel squadron was now lying ready armed, manned, and equipped, ready for sea—ready to go to Denmark if required. There were on board the ships of this squadron many Armstrong guns, and he would venture to assert that they were useless. If one of these ships were to go into action to-morrow with these guns, and encounter a French ship, for example, in all probability she would be knocked to pieces in the smallest possible space of time, for her Armstrong artillery would be found worthless. He had been very much alarmed at reading the report of the performance of the Armstrong guns in the action at Kagosima. It appeared that the pivot gun on board the Euryalus became disabled after the discharge of thirty-five rounds, and the other guns in the squadron were disabled after firing from ten to thirteen rounds. The 40-pounders of the Euryalus became useless after ten rounds, and if that ship had been opposed by any vessel with the Whitworth gun or with a smooth-bored gun—one of the noble Duke's artillery— she would be knocked to pieces, and the 1180 result would be alarming to the country and disastrous to its honour. He asked what would be the feeling if any harm should happen to a British ship going into battle with these cannon, so well known to be worthless that the men disliked making use of them? The consequences to a ship having such an armament in an engagement would be so disastrous that the honour of the country would be at stake. He entreated the noble Duke not to delay twenty-four hours taking those guns out of the ships and replacing them, if he pleased, with his own invention.
§ THE DUKE OF SOMERSETsaid, he could not lay claim to the honour of being the inventor of the new gun; all he had done was what many other inventors had done, to take advantage of other people's ideas. Finding there was some difficulty about rifled guns he asked Sir William Armstrong whether he could not produce some smooth-bored iron gun, as he thought it might be useful to the navy during the time while scientific men were attempting to produce a rifled gun of the best description. The only condition he made was that it should be a strong gun, capable of standing a charge of 30 lbs. of power. When that gun was made, it turned out, though constructed only for a temporary purpose, a very good gun. The noble Earl was of opinion that the 100-pounder Armstrong guns, placed on board the ships of the Chinese squadron, were perfectly worthless. Against iron-plated ships they might not have sufficient power; but an officer, who had come back from China, gave him a very different account from that which the noble Earl had heard. That officer stated that some of the guns failed, but that in other instances they were admirable. The guns sent to China were made before the last improvements in the vent-pieces. The invention was very much improved now, and the gun was less likely to be damaged. There existed different opinions as to the best system of rifling, as to the number of grooves, and the amount of spiral twist or turn which should be adopted; and it would be most unwise to manufacture u great number of guns while those questions remained undecided. The Whitworth gun had one spiral in 20 diameters, the Armstrong one in 37 diameters; Messrs. Britten's one in 120 diameters, and Mr. Lynall Thomas's one in 25 diameters. Foreign rifled guns ranged from one in 25 to one in 40 diameters. He mentioned these things to show that 1181 there was no settled principle in respect to the rifling of cannon, and he should not be doing his duty if he ordered ordnance to be made to a great amount before this question was determined. He hoped in a few weeks they would be able to ascertain which was the best gun, as a regular course of experiments was now in progress.
§ THE EARL OF HARDWICKEsaid, he had put a vital question to the noble Earl which he had not answered. The fact was that they had on board their ships a description of gun which was ineffective. Those who were on board the Chinese squadron described the Armstrong gun as worthless. He maintained that the breech-loading gun would not answer. The report made with regard to the Euryalus was, that she had ten or twelve of these guns, not one of which lasted after thirteen discharges—the carriages breaking, or the vent-pieces becoming choked or being blown away, so that the guns were useless. At all events, the guns became wretchedly worthless by discharges in repeated succession, and after that he was bound to say let the navy be supplied with any description of gun rather than the Armstrong rifled breech-loader, which was not fit for naval service. They were spending public money lavishly upon experiments of which nobody knew the end, if they were to turn their attention to the small questions of how many turns were required, or what was to be the direction of a curve. He protested against risking the safety of our ships by putting on board of them worthless armaments.
§ THE DUKE OF SOMERSETobserved, that though they might yet be far from perfection, the results obtained from the practice of the Armstrong guns were wonderful.
§ THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, he had seen a letter from a civilian in Japan who stated that great disappointment was felt in the fleet about the action of the Armstrong guns. The only guns which might be said to have survived the action seemed to be the old 68-pounders. It was stated that on the first day of the action at Kagosima, when a heavy gale prevailed, and the ships were under fire, the men engaged in firing the Armstrong guns on the Euryalus between decks became alarmed at firing them. Next day, however, when the sea was calm and the weather fine, the sailors were said to have made good long shooting with the Armstrong guns.
§ THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHmust say that what he had read in regard to the practice with the Armstrong guns in Japan had filled him with disappointment and alarm. If there were the slightest apprehension that the same misfortune would happen again, every Armstrong gun ought to be taken out of the ships. In war everything depended on time and on having the best instruments of war. Not a moment should be lost in placing these ships in an effective condition.
§ THE DUKE OF SOMERSETsaid, that the Admiralty had not lost a moment in sending out the plugs and materials for making these guns effective.
§ THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHsaid, that the noble Duke had got one good gun, and that if he would exert his own common sense in judging of these improvements, he would probably oftener be right than the scientific men.