Lords Sitting of 24 February 1863

MINUTES.
— PUBLIC BILLS.—Second Reading.— English Church Services in Wales [H.L.](No. 7).

PRIVATE BILLS.
Ordered, That this House will not receive any Petition for a Private Bill after
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Tuesday the 24th Day of March next, unless such Private Bill shall have been approved by the Court of Chancery; nor any Petition for a Private Bill approved by the Court of Chancery after Tuesday the 12th Day of May next:
Ordered, That this House will not receive any Report from the Judges, upon Petitions presented to this House for Private Bills, after Tuesday the 12th Day of May next:
Ordered, That the said Orders be printed and published, and affixed on the Doors of this House and Westminster Hall. (No. 21.)

EAST GLOUCESTERSHIRE RAILWAY BILL.—SECOND READING.
VISCOUNT LIFFORDmoved the second reading of this Bill. The noble Lord said, he was wholly unconnected with the district which this railway would traverse, but he happened to be on the Committee of last year which sanctioned this scheme. The present Bill simply asked for an extension of the time granted by the Act of last Session, which was promoted by local proprietors for the purpose of shortening the distance by railway between London and Cheltenham twenty-one miles, and for opening up a district of country at present destitute of railway accommodation. The scheme was originally promoted by the Great Western Railway Company, but that company had lately seen fit to withdraw their support. He believed there was no objection to an extension of the time asked.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.
LORD REDESDALEsaid, he must oppose the Motion, on the ground that the Standing Orders of Parliament had not been properly complied with. It appeared that some local proprietors had come forward and subscribed £120,000 as their share towards the costs of the undertaking, and that the Great Western Railway Company had subscribed the remainder of the sum (£440,000) necessary for making up the amount of capital, and had also guaranteed to pay 4 per cent interest on the £120,000. He was of opinion that the Great Western Company had acted in a very imprudent manner in the course they had adopted. The House could not enter into questions between the parties, but ought to confine themselves to the question whether the promoters of the scheme had done their duty or not. He begged

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to move that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.
Amendment moved to leave out ("now") and insert ("this Day Six Months.")
VISCOUNT LIFFORDhoped that the Bill would not be rejected on this occasion, but that a fortnight's delay would be granted to the promoters to consider the matter.
LORD REDESDALEsaid, he was unable to see why there should be any delay at all. The promoters had had plenty of time to perform their duty. He knew nothing at all of the merits of the scheme.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid, their Lordships were asked to reject this Bill without having received any information which could lead them to form a correct judgment on the matter. He thought the Bill ought to be sent before a Select Committee and be treated with fairness, and their Report would decide what should be done. He would, if in order, move that the debate be adjourned.
After a short discussion,
Further Debate adjourned to Tuesday, the 10th of March next.

ENGLISH CHURCH SERVICES IN WALES BILL [H.L.]—(No. 7.)

  SECOND READING.
  THE BISHOP OF BANGOR moved that the English Church Services in Wales Bill be now read the second time. Considerable inconvenience had been occasioned by the present state of the law, which required that in all parishes in that country in which Welsh was the language commonly spoken, Divine Service should be performed in that language. A large number of English families were scattered through these parishes; and not understanding the language, they were virtually deprived of the benefit of assembling for public worship. The object of the present Bill was to meet this state of things. It empowered the Bishops of Welsh dioceses to make provision for the performance of Divine Service in the English language by licensing any building in any parish where the ordinary parochial Services are required by law to be in the Welsh tongue; and to nominate and license a Minister of such place. The licensed building was not to be a parochial chapel, nor were the rights of the Incumbent to be affected thereby. The necessity for some such measure was apparent, and he therefore
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  hoped the Bill would meet with the approbation of their Lordships.
  Motion agreed to.
  Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House no Thursday next.

VOLUNTEER FORCE.—QUESTION.
LORD STRATHEDENasked the Under Secretary of State for War, Whether Her Majesty's Government are prepared to enforce that part of the Report of the Volunteer Commission which recommends the Delay of Brigade and Divisional Field Days until the end of the Battalion Drill Season? The noble Lord said that it had been found by experience that when the brigade or divisional field day was held early in the year the men fell off from attendance on the ordinary drill for the rest of the year. It was therefore desirable that the annual gatherings should be postponed to as late a period of the year as possible.
EARL DE GREY AND RIPONassured the noble Lord, that Her Majesty's Government was most anxious to carry out all the recommendations of the Royal Commission as far as possible. The recommendations varied in their character; some of them formed the subject of propositions to be submitted to Parliament, and required alterations in the law, others were only suggestions for the advantage of the Volunteer force, and were not suitable for strict regulations. No doubt there was great force in the arguments of the Commissioners on this subject, and he had heard from other sources, and learned from the evidence taken before the Commissioners, that it had been found, that when the more important field days of the year had been held in the early part of spring, it had been difficult for commanding officers to induce the members of their corps to come up to drill with the same zeal; and the drill thus falling off, had an injurious effect on the efficiency of the corps. But, it must be borne in mind, that there was another side to this question. Although it was quite true, that it was desirable that these great displays of the year should he postponed as late as convenient, they should not forget that they could only take place on certain occasions, when it was possible to bring together a great body of Volunteers—that was to say, when the

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convenience of members of corps rendered it possible for them to give up a whole day for that purpose. That could only take place on a very few days in the year, and it had been found that, of all days, the one on which the greatest mass of Volunteers could be got together was Easter Monday. The noble Lord had suggested Whit Monday. If that day was equally convenient, it would be an advantage, no doubt, to have the principal field day then; but so long as Easter Monday was the general holiday of the year, it was not unreasonable to choose that as the most convenient day for displays of this kind. The Government Lad not power to call Volunteers out for any purpose of this description in time of peace, and the appointment of the day and place rested with the commanding officers. The Government did not intend to make any regulation founded on the recommendations of the Commissioners, but he trusted that those recommendations would be considered by the officers commanding corps, and that they would take every possible step to prevent the falling off of drill after Easter Monday. He had ground for hoping that greater attention would be paid to this matter, as under the new system proposed by the Commissioners, and to be adopted by Government, a stricter test of efficiency would be enforced, and it would be to the interest of officers and men to take those steps which were best calculated to ensure such efficiency.
LORD TRUROsaid, he fully concurred with the noble Earl who had just spoken. The recommendation of the Commissioners was founded on a misapprehension or forgetfulness of the other duties the men composing the various Volunteers Corps had to perform, and he was glad to hear that the Government and the War Office would not interfere with the arrangements of the Volunteer force. It was only on a few occasions, such as Easter Monday, that the men could all leave their other avocations for the purpose of taking part in the displays of field-days.
After a few words from Lord STRATH-EDEN,
House adjourned at a quarter past Six o'clock, to Thursday next, half past Ten o'clock.