THE EARL OF ELLEFBOROUGHMy Lords, I rise to ask, Whether the Government will lay upon the table any Despatch from the Consul General at Warsaw, in as far as it relates to the immediate Origin of the present Insurrection in Poland; also, to ask whether any Communication has been made by the Russian Government with respect to the Origin of the Insurrection, or by the Prussian Government with respect to any Engagement it may have entered into with a view to aiding the Russian Government in its Suppression? Your Lordships will observe that I only ask for information as to communications which may have been received from other Governments. I ask no question as to any communication which may have proceeded from Her Majesty's Government. If, however, they should feel themselves in a position to make any statement on the latter point, I have no doubt it will be received with satisfaction by your Lordships; but I am not asking for information with respect to their own proceedings, because there might be some inconvenience in affording it on this occasion. But, my Lords, I am sure of this, that whatever Her Majesty's Ministers may have said or done, the feelings excited in their breasts by the recent conduct of the Russians in Poland must be similar to those which have been excited in the breast of every English gentleman. I feel that I should display a want of candour, that I should be guilty of an offence against the Members of the Cabinet, if I expressed the slightest doubt of that. My Lords, the news of this insurrection in Poland was to all of us a subject of the most painful surprise. No doubt, nothing had occurred to lead us to expect such an ebullition of public feeling on the part of the Poles. On the contrary, the course of events during the last eighteen months had been, upon the whole, such as rather to lead us 561 to hope that, on the whole, things were in a somewhat better state. Towards the end of the summer of 1861 the Russian Government sent a new Governor to Poland, with instructions of a most just and conciliatory character towards the Poles. At a somewhat later period the Emperor sent the Grand Duke Constantine to Poland, and his Imperial Highness, accompanied by his family, went there, in all probability with instructions in the same spirit. From these occurrences there seemed no doubt that the Emperor would attempt to conciliate the Poles, and it was hoped that some arrangement would be come to whereby something like Constitutional Government would be established in Poland. I believe the advice given by the friends of Poland was that the Poles should take the hand of friendship held out to them, show their willingness to co-operate with the Government, and accept all they could get. But it seems that while all this was going on, the police under the Russian Government were collecting information, or what they term information of the political opinions of every one in Poland capable of military service; and in the middle of the night of the 14th of January, without warning, by virtue of an order signed only at ten o'clock that night, Russian soldiers surrounded the domiciles and families of persons residing in Warsaw and forcibly took them from the midst of their families, without affording them any time to make preparations for a separation, perhaps for life, from all that belonged to them. It is to be observed, my Lords, that the men seized under that conscription were not those who were fittest for military service, but those who from their political opinions seemed to the Russian police fittest to be consigned to the Russian army for life. My Lords, the feeling of the people of Warsaw and of the people of Poland was one of utter despair. Those who could escape betook themselves to the woods, and a feeling of despair led them at once to resist the armed force of Russia. My Lords, they had not time for reflection—their feeling was that of unutterable despair—but, had time been afforded to them, they could have come to no other resolution than that which uncalculating despair suggested. There was no longer security for any man in the midst of his family. In many cases men were selected as soldiers for the purpose of gratifying private ani- 562 mosity, as might have been done in former times in the State of Venice. It was a blow at the nation, and the nation has risen to avenge it. I recollect that when the revolution broke out in France, a Minister of great candour and straightforwardness, and who knew the circumstances which had led to it, expressed his opinion in this House that the revolution was provoked. My Lords, I trust there is a similar spirit and candour in Her Majesty's present Government. If they really believe the circumstances occurred in Warsaw which we are told led to the insurrection, I do hope they will come forward and declare that the Government think the insurrection was provoked, and thus place themselves where the Government of the country ought to be—at the head of public opinion. My Lords, let us observe what has occurred in consequence of the insurrection provoked by the conduct of the Russians. At the present moment Russia cannot be considered any longer as in Europe. A few years ago England and France and Piedmont combined together; to bar the passage of Russia to the Bosphorus. They succeeded in that object, and Russia has now barred herself from Europe on the north-east—her frontier is practically thrown back to the Niemen. It would be impossible for her to lead her troops through Poland; and, owing to the condition of that country, it is almost certain that such a state of things must continue for a considerable time. She has not only to reconcile to herself the Poles, but she must also reconcile to herself the public opinion of all Europe. Depend upon it, my Lords, that the sullen murmurs of the public reprobation of all the nations of Europe must have made themselves heard in Petersburg. Look around and see in what quarter we have reason to apprehend the consequences. We can look back and recollect during how many years the Poles fought gallantly in the ranks of the French army. As long as there exists in Franco a sense of military honour—as long as there remains the memory of the brilliant deeds of the Poles, of the courage and daring of that noble brotherhood in arms which led them to the last, under the most untoward and disastrous circumstances, to stand in unbroken ranks round the colours they had chosen—as long as this remains, France must be in heart with Poland. And the Emperor of the French—who is most sensitive to observe 563 and to apprehend every change in public opinion—it is impossible for him not to observe what are the sentiments of the French people and the French army; and these must soon become the sentiments of the Emperor. Austria, my Lords, has throughout acted loyally, according to the principles of International Law, and neither Russia nor any other Power, as far as I am aware, can by possibility attach blame to her for her conduct. But what are we to say of Prussia? It is but a few weeks ago that the King of Prussia summoned his army and his people to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the call of their King to the field, when, in 1813, the whole nation sprang to arms, and Prussia marched by the side of the Allies to Paris. My Lords, it was not the summons of the King alone which led them to take that course—it had already been adopted by a portion of the army. That movement arose from a feeling of resentment which it was impossible to control when, the Prussians looked back at the indignities and suffering to which the French had subjected them. They rose then to redeem the honour of their country: they rose to demand for themselves the position and the rights of an independent people. And, my Lords, can it be expected by any Sovereign, however mediaeval his notions of Government may be, that those who now represent the Prussian army will allow themselves to be moved to the Polish frontier for the purpose of repressing every principle and every feeling which they had at heart in 1813, and the assertion of which has obtained for them the higher rank they have since maintained in Europe? Prussia owes that she is a nation— that her army is respected among those of Europe—she owes everything she has of honour and independence to her having acted upon the very principles and been incited by the very feelings which she is now, I fear, called upon to attack on the Polish frontier. My Lords, that cannot be. It is contrary to nature—it is contrary to the feelings of nations and of armies; and if the King of Prussia should add to all the various acts which have so irritated his people and his Parliament an attempt to trample through the army upon the very principles to which he owes the independence and the honour of his country, there will arise a crisis in that kingdom—a mighty reaction—which may extend yet further, and may again disorganize all the States of Europe. I 564 do not pretend to entertain any peculiar views respecting the causes which may have given rise to the great events now transpiring in Poland. But I have an enduring reliance upon the general beneficence of that Providence from which all these great events must spring; and, looking at the inscrutable manner in which Providence effects its purposes, bringing good out of evil—dreadful as the view is which we now have of the state of things in Poland, and of this horrible war in which both parties destroy, and both are believed to massacre—whatever may be the miseries now inflicted upon Poland— I will entertain the hope that this is the commencement of a brighter era, and that even we may live to see that which has been the object of all Statesmen for the last eighty years—the re-establishment, if not in its integrity, at least in strength, under a constitutional Government, of the noble nation of the Poles.
§ EARL RUSSELLMy Lords, in answer to the noble Earl, I shall confine myself as far as possible to the facts of the case as far as they are known to me, and shall abstain as much as possible, with the exception of one part of the observations which he has made, from the expression of opinions respecting what is now going on in Poland. In the first place, I will say that I cannot, consistently with my duty, give the report from our Consul General at Warsaw, because I consider that while these events are transpiring the production of these reports would make the position of the Consul one of extreme difficulty, and would render it almost impossible for him to give information, and to describe the course of things in Poland, without encountering violent opposition from one or other of the parties. With regard to the present outbreak, I must say I do not think it was so sudden and so unexpected an event as the noble Earl seems to suppose—at least to those who were in, the habit of receiving accounts of what was going on in Poland. Your Lordships will recollect that last year there were in Warsaw great demonstrations, the churches being filled at times with men and women singing patriotic hymns, these demonstrations, however, being unaccompanied by any breach of the peace. But it was impossible that they could have continued for a long time without either producing, on the part of the Government and the Emperor of Russia, an inclination to accede to 565 the wishes of the Poles at Warsaw, or without leading to violent measures from those who took part in these demonstrations. Now, my Lords, in considering the affairs of Poland, we may divide the population of the country into three different classes. One portion, consisting of the landed aristocracy, the great owners of the soil, many of them enlightened men, engaged in the cultivation and improvement of their estates, and in improving the condition of the people living on those estates, were but little disposed to favour any act of revolution. Another portion of the people of Poland consists of the middle classes in the towns, both those belonging to the upper part of the middle classes and the shopkeepers and others who belong to the lower part of the middle classes. The other portion of the population of Poland consists of the peasantry. When the demonstrations, to which I have alluded, ceased, there was a great difference in the course taken by these different classes of the population. The great landowners were determined, if possible, to bring their grievances to the foot of the throne, but they were determined, at the same time, not to break out into any act of violence, and not to use force for the accomplishment of their objects. Those objects were, according to my information, the right of constitutional government, the right to have representatives, and to have a Polish Administration, or an enlightened Administration, consisting chiefly; of Poles, favour to the religion of their country, and the encouragement of the study of the language of their country. With regard to the last of these objects, they were in agreement with the intentions of the Emperor. Heretofore, in the history of Poland, it has been the object of the Russian Government to root out the language of the country, and to deter the Poles from the exercise of the Roman Catholic religion. The present Emperor, on the contrary, was understood to favour the national development of Poland, and his wishes and views with regard to the Government of Poland were described as, to a great extent, most enlightened. These persons, then, belonging to the landed aristocracy of Poland, met together, and in conformity, as they believed, with the wishes of the Emperor and of the Grand Duke Constantine, they prepared an address in which they, in the first place, stated their wish that Poland should be enlarged by the addition of certain pro- 566 vinces now under the Russian rule, which, since the first partition in 1772, had been separated altogether from Poland; and, in the second place, they asked for constitutional Government. Their wishes, in, these respects, were not different from those entertained by Alexander I. of Russia, and were not inconsistent with the general provisions of the Treaty of Vienna, in framing which the Emperor took so large a part, and over which he exercised so considerable an influence. When, however, this address, signed by more than 200 of the chief landed proprietors in Poland, was presented, the persons who so presented it were told that they had committed a grave offence against the State, and Count Zamayski, who had been the medium of its presentation, was told that he had taken a step which was inconsistent with the law and with the policy of the Emperor, and that it was requisite for the internal peace of Poland that he should quit the country. Accordingly, he quitted Russia and came to England. While here he was informed that his wife, whom he had left behind him, was at the point of death. Upon this he applied for permission to visit his dying wife; but— owing, I am bound to say, to some mistake—the telegraphic despatch sent never reached its destination, and therefore he received no answer to his application. It had always been attempted, on the part of the aristocracy of Poland, to obtain a representative constitution, and to establish a liberal government which would be entirely consistent with loyalty towards the Emperor of Russia; but, in this instance, the attempt came to an end in the manner I have described. I now come to the second portion of the Polish population, consisting of the middle classes. They were in despair at finding that no improvement in the administration of the country resulted from the efforts of those who were sent to improve it; and they therefore formed themselves, in Warsaw especially, into secret societies, among whose members were persons entertaining the most extreme views on social and political questions, partaking to some extent, I believe, of the opinions held by M. Mazzini. My Lords, it was open to the Russian Government, of course, to have used their utmost vigilance in repressing these secret societies, giving to the members of them a fair trial, and, it necessary, severe punishment; but, at the same time, 567 the Emperor might have continued and enlarged his plans for the improvement of his administration in Poland, and might thus have showed that under the Russian Government happiness was still within the reach of the Polish people. Unfortunately, this was not the course taken by the Government of Russia; and the Emperor, under the advice—this, at least, is the general belief—of a very distinguished Pole, Count Wielopolski, who had been placed under the Grand Duke at Warsaw, came to a different conclusion. I will not attempt to repeat the account of that which the noble Earl described in his own graphic and impressive manner as the effect of the conscription. Certain it is that the measure of conscription which was carried through by the Government of Poland was of the most severe character, and such as to excite the unhappy population to despair. A conscription is of itself a measure of great severity upon the population. It condemns a man, who has no wish to embark in the military profession, to banishment from home, and to all the privations of a military life, if the lot should fall upon him. Seeing that the measure itself is one of such severity, the Sovereigns of those countries, where it is in force, have introduced such modifications of the law as make it tolerable to the population and modify its severity beyond what the necessity of the case might require. And the Russian Government itself, by the laws of 1859, had introduced a system by which it was provided that so many should be chosen out of every 100, or out of every 1,000, such choice being made justly and fairly, and substitutes were allowed for those who had fair ground for exemption. Instead of taking the legal course, the Government of Poland ordered in the first instance that the whole conscription should be levied upon the towns, in which they considered the spirit of insurrection chiefly to prevail, and that it should not be levied in the country parts, where the peasantry were supposed to be less disaffected. That of itself was a great injustice. But they went beyond this, and not only ordered that the whole number of conscripts should be taken from the towns, but also that from certain lists of names which, as the noble Earl has stated, were supplied by the police, those persons contained in those lists, without trial or examination, were to be presumed to be guilty of disloyalty, and were to be seized and car- 568 ried away to serve as soldiers, although they were not fairly liable to be placed upon the lists of conscripts. The feeling produced by such a measure may be imagined. The persons who were engaged in secret societies, who meant to rise in insurrection at some time, although probably they would never have carried out that intention, were driven to despair; they thought that if they must serve as soldiers they would rather shed the last drop of their blood upon their native land of Poland than waste their lives in distant lands in the service of Russia. Those who were not engaged in conspiracies were struck with alarm lest they might be suspected, and thus they at once fled from the towns and determined to risk their lives in insurrection. Well, my Lords, this measure, although it was not a measure taken with a population that was perfectly tranquil and well affected, yet it was a measure which, I think, no British Minister would venture to justify. In conversation with the Russian Minister, and in writing to Her Majesty's Ambassador, I could not forbear to express my opinion that it was the most imprudent and the most unjust step the Russian Government could take. With regard to the second part of the noble Earl's question, which relates to the communications with respect to the engagements by which the Prussian Government has bound itself to lend its assistance in certain events to the Russian Government to repress the insurrection, I have had conversations both with the Russian and the Prussian Ambassadors upon the subject, but they have not furnished me with a copy of the convention; indeed, they informed me they had no such copy. But they have informed me generally of the nature of that convention. The Russian Ambassador told me to day that it was not a convention, on the part of Prussia for the purpose of suppressing the insurrection in Poland; but I understood from him and from the Prussian Ambassador that the purport of the convention was, that instead of Prussia remaining perfectly neutral—in which case Russian soldiers either taking refuge from insurgents or being in pursuit of insurgents, if they should touch upon Prussian territory, would be disarmed and kept disarmed as long as they remained upon Prussian territory—they have agreed that Russian soldiers, when taking refuge upon Prussian soil, should retain their arms, and if pursuing Polish insurgents they 569 should be permitted to pursue them, and take them prisoners if they can, upon Prussian territory. I understand also that the engagement is reciprocal, and that, if any insurrection should occur in the Polish provinces of Prussia, the Prussian soldiers would be allowed to pursue the insurgents in Russian Poland, and take prisoners any insurgents they might be able to find there. Those are, as far as I can understand from verbal communication, the engagements now existing between Prussia and Russia. As to Austria, the Ambassador of Austria has read to me a despatch showing the policy of the Austrian Government, and of which I can give your Lordships an outline. The Austrian Government declared they would take no part with regard to the Polish insurrection, but that they would strictly comply with all their engagements with Russia—that they will not permit arms or ammunition to cross the frontier, nor persons in arms as insurgents to take advantage of any shelter in Austria in order to make an attack upon the Russian provinces of Poland. But, beyond this, the Austrian Government takes no measures such as those I have mentioned in the other case. The Austrian Government declared, in the name of the Emperor, that it is his wish that his subjects in Galicia should enjoy all the privileges which they have at present; that he will not send any more troops into Galicia than were there before the breaking-out of the insurrection, but will rely entirely upon the fidelity of the people. I could not help observing to the Prussian Ambassador that, in my opinion, the Prussian Government, by taking any share in the suppression of the insurrection, does in some way make itself responsible after the fact for the measures of conscription that have been adopted. I have now stated to your Lordships all that I can at present detail. As to any advice to be given, that must be a matter of most serious deliberation. I do not know at present the whole extent of the objects and scope of the insurrection. We do not know whether it may not be a mere movement of despair, against which the influence of property may be successfully brought to bear, or whether, on the other hand, it may not extend further, and become a national movement. Under these circumstances, I must decline to produce at present the papers to which the noble Earl has referred.
§ THE EARL OF MALMESBURY—I do not clearly understand from the noble Earl 570 whether, if insurgents took refuge without being pursued, they are to be given up by the Prussian Government to the Russian Government. I cannot sit down without expressing my sincere sorrow at what I have heard to be the attitude of the Prussian Government.
§ EARL RUSSELL—I have not been informed that there is any article or stipulation with regard to unarmed refugees.
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