Lords Sitting of 6 February 1863

MINUTES.
— Took the Oath.—The Viscount Hawardon.

REPORT OF THE VOLUNTEER COM -MISSION.—QUESTION.
LORD LLANOVERasked the Under Secretary of State for War, Whether it was the intention of the Government to propose any measures during the present Session for the purpose of carrying out the recommendations contained in the Report of the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the state of the Volunteer Force of the country? He said he apprehended that if the recommendations of the Commission were about to be carried out by Her Majesty's Government, the introduction of a money Bill into the other House of Parliament would be necessary. In that case, he ventured to recommend that the measure of the Government should be brought forward as speedily as possible, in order to remove the uncertainty which at present prevailed.
EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, that it was the intention of Her Majesty's Government to propose to Parliament measures for substantially carrying out the recommendations of the Volunteer Commission. For this purpose it would be necessary to include a sum of money in the annual Estimates, and to introduce a Bill into Parliament proposing an alteration in the existing Volunteer Acts. He thought it was not altogether expedient
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that he should then enter into details which would be better explained when his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War moved the Estimates in another place, and he trusted that it would be sufficient, in order to allay the feeling of uncertainty which had been stated to prevail on the subject, to announce that measures were about to be introduced for the purpose of carrying out substantially the recommendations of the Commission.
VISCOUNT HARDINGEsaid, that he concurred with the Commissioners in thinking additional aid to the Volunteers was necessary, in order to preserve the force for the service of the country. He was further of opinion that the system of fortifications adopted for the defence of our arsenals afforded an additional reason why the Volunteer movement should be kept up. We could not now afford to lose 150,000 men who, in case of war, would be very useful in manning the fortifications. He would impress on his noble Friend the Under Secretary for War that every precaution should be taken to insure that the money voted by Parliament as aid towards the maintenance of the Volunteer force—if Parliament should sanction a public expenditure for that purpose— should be carefully and strictly applied to the purposes for which it was intended, and that no money should be paid to any man who did not attend those instructions and exercises which were necessary to make him efficient as a Volunteer. He thought that in recommending nine days' drill only, the Royal Commission were rather below the mark. His own opinion was in favour of a higher requirement; but the majority thought that with the checks which were proposed, and the supervision of the commanding officer and of the adjutant, nine days would be sufficient. In all the other recommendations of the Commission he entirely concurred; but with reference to another force, the Militia, he might be forgiven for expressing a hope that they would in future be trained for twenty eight clays, as recommended by the Militia Commission. He was afraid he should be told that financial considerations stood in the way, but he was certain that the efficiency of the force very much depended upon this requirement.
LORD TRUROsaid, that one of the objects for which the Commission was appointed was to make inquiries into the present condition of the Volunteer force. He certainly thought that the utmost

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praise was due to the Commissioners for the assiduity and industry they had manifested; at the same time, he must say he thought that passage of the Report in which the Commissioners expressed their gratification in being enabled to state that the present condition of the Volunteer force was, generally speaking, satisfactory, and the annual subscriptions sufficient to meet the expenditure, was hardly consistent with their recommendation that they should receive pecuniary aid from the country. If the annual expenses of the force had generally been defrayed by its own members, and were sufficient to maintain it in a satisfactory condition, it did not seem to follow that pecuniary support by the country was required. He would observe also that his Royal Highness the Commander-in-Chief had impressed upon the Volunteers the great necessity of attending company drill, and on one occasion was even reported to have said that the Volunteers had better be in their drill yards than making attempts at complicated field evolutions. Now, the Commissioners, out of the nine days of attendance, recommended that six should be days of battalion drill, and three of company drill. He should have thought it more consistent with the advice of the Commander-in-Chief that six of the drills should be company, and three battalion drills. He condemned their knowledge of the subject when they laid down thirty drills for recruits in the Infantry and Artillery— those of the latter service having to learn not only company and battalion drill, but gun drill also, to which twenty-four drills out of the thirty were to be devoted. Another recommendation of the Commissioners was that any adjutant who might be employed as a paymaster should be responsible for all money received by him on account of the Volunteer force being expended in strict accordance with the army regulations; but those regulations expressly prohibited adjutants from dealing with the money at all. The public had hitherto given but slender support to the Volunteer force, and no one could doubt that the grant of Government aid to the Volunteer force would tend to diminish rather than to increase annual subscriptions and donations for the future. The noble Lord also reprobated the determination not to allow the Volunteers the use of light artillery, which in case of war would be found to be a great mistake, On what
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principle this had been done he could not imagine.
In answer to Lord VIVIAN,
EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, it was the intention of Her Majesty's Government to carry out the new regulations which had been recommended by the Royal Commissioners to adopt. Those corps which might wish to expend any portion of the grant in clothing would be required to conform themselves to a certain definite rule. At present the Government had but one pattern of grey clothing, and it would no doubt be necessary to have others; but, at any rate, it would be necessary to follow the patterns adopted by the War Office.
House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter before Five o'clock.