Lords Sitting of 31 May 1861

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2a Government of the Navy.
3a Leases, &c. by Incumbents Restriction; Combination of Parishes Dissolution (Scotland).

MONEY POWERS IN RAILWAY ACTS.— STANDING ORDER No. 185.
LORD REDESDALEmoved, That the Standing Order No. clxxxv. (formerly 223) be considered, in order to its being amended in the following manner, after paragraph 2, to insert:—
"3. That no Provision authorizing any Company to raise Money or to subscribe towards or to guarantee any Money in the Undertaking of another Company, shall be introduced into any Bill which is not brought in by the Company thereby authorized to raise Money or to subscribe or to guarantee."
The noble Lord said the Amendment had become necessary from a practice that had sprung up of Companies bringing in Bills in which powers were taken for other companies to contribute money or to guarantee money; so that a person looking at the especial Act of Parliament governing a particular Company was not enabled to ascertain what was the real extent of the company's liabilities.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid, that the effect of adopting this as a Standing Order would be to require Railway Companies to bring in a Bill whenever they proposed to subscribe towards any small branch promoted by a local Company, as well as the new Company applying for Parliamentary powers to construct it. He thought it unwise, where a line was for the
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benefit of the community, to impose unnecessary difficulties or restrictions on the parties promoting it.
EARL GRANVILLEsaid, that although the authority of the noble Lord the Chairman of Committees was of great weight, yet he thought there was much reason in what had been stated by the noble Marquess as to the danger of increasing the Parliamentary expenses of railways. That was very undesirable. It was, besides, un-advisable to multiply Standing Orders which did not agree with these of the other House of Parliament. Perhaps the better course would be to postpone this matter with a view to its being more fully considered.
LORD REDESDALEstated that the terms of the Resolution had been communicated to the Chairman of the Committee on Standing Orders of the House of Commons, and had been approved. It was not intended that the Standing Order should apply to Bills before Parliament this Session. He had no objection to postpone it.
Motion postponed.

SALMON FISHERIES.—OBSERVATIONS.
THE EARL OF MALMESBURYrose to call the Attention of the House to the Report and Recommendations of the Commissioners upon the Salmon Fisheries of England and Wales. Upon one occasion the late Sir Robert Peel was said to have declared that he never knew a Session which could not boast of a Salmon Fisheries Bill, and it appeared that the present Session was to be no exception to the rule, because their Lordships were not only to be called upon to consider the provisions of a Salmon Bill, but they had upon their table a copious volume in the shape of a Report and recommendations of a Royal Commission issued to inspect the salmon fisheries of England and Wales, and to inquire into the causes of the diminution in the number of fish caught. He had spent many pleasant hours of his life in salmon fishing, and he was, therefore, not likely to pick holes in any recommendations that might be made for the preservation of that particular fish, but, on the contrary, was most anxious to encourage by all fair means its preservation and increase. At the same time, however, he could not put aside altogether the prejudices with respect to the liberty of the subject and the rights of private property, which they had all been taught to reverence and maintain:

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but he must say he thought the Royal Commissioners, in the exercise of their duty, which they seemed to have carried out with zeal and ability, and which had resulted in an excellent Report containing good advice, had been carried away by overmuch zeal, and had conducted their inquiries upon the principle that a salmon was almost the first animal in creation. Parodying the old lines they might have finished their report by saying—
"When a salmon's in the case
All other things, of course, give place."
Misled by exaggerated evidence as to the miraculous quantity of salmon that formerly existed, they had been brought to the conclusion that the same wonderful quantity might be restored by an Act of Parliament. He could not persuade himself that there ever existed the enormous quantities of salmon which were described in old charters, or that, supposing there were, we should ever see anything of the same kind again. The Commissioners laid stress Upon certain old documents, which said that apprentices should not be fed upon salmon oftener than twice a week. He knew that such parchments existed in Salisbury and other places at the heads of rivers, but we did not find them at the mouths of rivers. The natural inference was that the unfortunate apprentices concerned were crammed with black or foul fish, which were found in great quantities at the heads of rivers, and which were unfit for human food. We ad knew the exaggerations of old men—laudatores temporis acti. Every old fisherman believed that salmon were formerly twice as large and twice as numerous as now; but, as far as his own experience was concerned, he could not say that he saw much difference in the "take" of fish. In 1856 there were more fish caught in some of the rivers in the south of England than had been taken for twenty or thirty years before; and although some reasons might be given for a general diminution in the breed of salmon, yet the variations from year to year were as unaccountable as these in the number of woodcocks. There were several points on which he agreed with the Commissioners, and with respect to which he would offer no opposition to their recommendations. For example, he had no doubt that the removal of obstacles at the mouths of rivers was very desirable, inasmuch as it would allow the fish to reach the spawning beds in the upper water. He thought, also, that there should be a regular close time, to be ob-
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served most strictly during the breeding season, when the fish were really not fit to be eaten. A penalty should be attached to the sale of roe, provision should be made by which the fish should be allowed to attain a proper size before they were taken; and a stop should be put to the exportation of fish out of season, which could be done most effectually by an arrangement with the French Government. Such measures for preserving and increasing the breed of salmon might be easily put in execution without any infringement upon the rights of private property or upon the liberty of the subject, and he thought they were all that it would be wise or necessary to adopt. Other recommendations of the Commissioners—recommendations which were embodied in a Bill now before the other House—were, if not impossible, at least impolitic, and, he believed, impracticable. It was actually proposed that the whole of England, land as well as water, should be put under the paternal protection, as far as salmon were concerned, of the Home Office; that there should be a Central Board established to govern all fisheries; that local boards should act as the lieutenants of the Central Board. So complicated was the machinery for carrying out the supervision of the Board that he could almost imagine himself reading a new Reform Bill. All fisheries were to be valued, and rates levied upon them to defray the expenses of general superintendence and of constabulary for the protection of the fish; the water-bailiffs were to be empowered, whenever they pleased, to walk over the private property adjacent to rivers without let or hindrance. The last proposal pointed to an interference with the rights of private property which would be fatal to the peace of any rural community. In many cases the fishery belonged to one man, and the banks of the river to another, so that the landowner would be trespassed upon for the benefit of the fishery proprietor. If a man possessed both fishery and land, he surely might protect his own fish; if the water only belonged to him, he could protect it by going up and down the river in a boat. At present no person could land or net, or angle without the permission of the owner of the banks, and, therefore, it was proposed to give to other parties a power which even the proprietors of fisheries themselves did not possess. It was recommended, moreover, that all streams which were led from large rivers for pur-

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poses of irrigation, should be stopped at their entrances by gratings, with a view to prevent the passage of fish. To do that would sometimes be equivalent to the stoppage of the whole drainage of the country, owing to the accumulation of water which would take place in consequence. It was quite true, he admitted, that the Commissioners recommended that, in case any damage was occasioned by such stoppages, reasonable compensation should be made; but he could conceive nothing which would be likely to create more constant wrangling than that official gentlemen should at this time of the year walk through the grass and corn on the banks of rivers with the object of carrying that recommendation into effect. Their Lordships had no idea, in short, of the complicated machinery which the proposals made on the subject, if carried out, would entail; and when he took up the measure itself, in which these proposals were embodied, it appeared to him as if the Government had aimed at framing a new Reform Bill. It embraced a system of double election—that of a central as well of local boards—and provided for the supervision of the Home Office in the case of these bodies. If, he might add, the objections which he had pointed out were not removed, he felt assured that annoyances and disputes would prevail to such an extent that people would say they would rather have no salmon at all than be kept in such a continued state of turmoil. He trusted, therefore, the Government would not try to do too much in the matter, and would not, by following too strictly the recommendations of the Commissioners, embark on a course of impossible legislation, but would rather consider the advisability of introducing some less stringent measure.
EARL GRANVILLEsaid, he could not lay claim to this special knowledge possessed by his noble Friend, and he was one of the very few Members in either House of Parliament who happened never to have sat on a Committee on a Salmon Bill, or to have taken part in legislation on the interesting and vexed question to which the noble Earl had just called attention. He knew, however, sufficient of the subject to be able to form the opinion that there was a diminution in the quantity of salmon, and in that opinion he was confirmed by the Report of the Commissioners. Their Lordships would, he might add, be deceived by what had fallen from the noble Earl if it should lead them to suppose that the
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Commissioners had founded the conclusion at which they had arrived simply on the representations of some old fishermen. The increased cost of salmon, the diminished rental of rivers, as well as official and formal documents, had, in addition, furnished them with actual proof that both in number and in weight salmon had diminished in all the fisheries of the country. But, be that as it might, it would be entirely out of order to discuss the provisions of a Bill on the subject which had not yet come under their Lordship's consideration, while at the same time he thought it was; perhaps, desirable that an opportunity of ventilating—to use a vulgar phrase—a question of considerable importance should be afforded. He would, however, be going far beyond his duty if, as a member of the Government, he were to enter into a discussion of the details of a Bill now under the consideration of the other branch of the Legislature. He should, therefore, content himself with saying that the subject was one which required the introduction of a Reform Bill, and that the Government, acting on the advice of the Commissioners, had prepared a measure which was founded almost entirely on a law now in existence in Ireland on the same subject, which, he was informed, worked in a most satisfactory manner. The subject was well worthy the consideration of the House, and when the Bill came up to it in due course, he trusted its provisions would receive careful consideration and revision.

CULTIVATION OF COTTON IN INDIA.

  OBSERVATIONS.
  THE MARQUESS OF TWEEDDALE: I rise to present a Petition to your Lordships from the Cotton Supply Association of Manchester, in which they express their alarm at the prospect of a serious diminution in the future supply of cotton to this country in consequence of the civil war now raging between the Northern and Southern States of America, and in order that I should not occupy too much of your Lordships' time, I will only read the Prayer of the Petition—
  "Your Petitioners, therefore, pray your Right Honourable House to adopt such measures as will contribute to the development of the agricultural and commercial resources of India, and in particular to a supply of cotton from that country."
  The first object they have in view is that the sale of land may be made in fee simple; the second is the establishment of

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  efficient courts of law; the third is the construction of all necessary public works, such as roads, railroads, canals, the improvement of the navigation of rivers, and particularly the Godavery. In directing your Lordship's attention to the petition I have just presented, I must crave your indulgence when I make a few observations on a subject vitally affecting the interests of so large a portion of the manufacturing population of this country. To myself it is a source of gratification to think that the first time I have had the honour of addressing your Lordships it should be in support of that branch of industry which long experience teaches me is the keystone to our agricultural prosperity. In common with your Lordships, I feel with deep interest the crisis that now hangs so heavily on the heads of the people of the United States of America. The two countries have been so long and intimately connected in commercial transactions, that what deranges the trade of one must necessarily affect the industry of the other. It, therefore, does not surprise me that the manufacturers of Manchester and Glasgow have taken the alarm at what is occurring on the other side of the Atlantic. Their trade and the bread of hundreds of thousands of our manufacturing population and their families depend at present on the supply of cotton from the Southern States of North America. They must naturally now look to some other country to supply their wants. Your Lordships are aware that India has of late become one of the chief markets for the disposal of our manufactured cotton goods, and by encouragement such as it has a right to expect, I have no doubt that it will soon supply our manufacturers with the raw material. From time immemorial that country has produced cotton sufficient to clothe 200,000,000 of its inhabitants. Now, my Lords, during the last thirty years past anxiety has been shown by the authorities at home, and by the Local Government in India, to meet the wishes of the manufacturers of Manchester and Glasgow in the improvement of the cot ton wool of India. But the extraordinary demand for it has only shown itself during the last few years. If your Lordships will refer to the blue books containing the minutes and proceedings of the Local Government on this subject, you will find that the quality of cotton wool sent from India has been considerably improved of late years, and the quantity imported into this country has much increased. No doubt
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  there has been a difference of opinion in regard to the cause of the supply not being equal to the demand of our manufacturers of late. Those who trade in cotton seem to think that it is owing to the defective state of the land tenure in the Ryotwar districts of India, to the bad state of the roads which connect the field of production with the port of export, in consequence of the rivers and their tributaries which traverse the cotton fields not having had the obstacles which impede navigation removed, and particularly in the Godavery, to the insecurity of invested property, as well as of advances made to the Natives for the purposes of cultivation. Before I sit down I will revert to these points. When I was in India I heard opinions expressed very similar to what I have heard since my return home. I consequently gave every consideration to the subject, and after much investigation I recorded the same opinion in regard to the principal cause of the deficiency of supply from India that I entertain now—that unless the manufacturers of this country engaged in the cotton trade send out agents, who are thoroughly acquainted with their wants, into the cotton districts of India, with instructions to purchase from the Native cultivator cotton of the quality, and cleaned as they desire to have it, at a remunerative price to the grower, they need not expect to see themselves made independent of other countries by the amount of supply that would be imported into this country from India; and this opinion is corroborated from what I hear from India in the present day, as well as from men in whose experience I have confidence, now living at home. I am glad to say that the Cotton Supply Association have appointed a gentleman to carry out these views who is thoroughly acquainted with the wants of our manufacturers, and who will arrive in India before the cotton crop is ripe. I feel assured, if your Lordships were aware of all the tricking and deception that used to take place, and what I am told still frequently takes place, with the cotton from the time it leaves the cultivator's hands, and gets into the possession of the Native chitty and broker, until it is put on board of ships, as well as the exorbitant rate of interest (from 18 to 40 per cent) that the Native cultivator frequently pays for the advances made to him by the soucar, you would not be astonished at the course I recommend. I firmly believe, that if the manufacturers' agents purchased cotton

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  from the cultivators, and had their own gins in the cotton district, it would soon put an end to the necessity of the Natives requiring advances, and would enable them gradually to amass capital, as they would then receive the full value of their produce. They have been so long oppressed in the disposal of their produce by the Native brokers, &c, that they will require for some time to be accustomed to the straightforward dealing of a European agent to make them forget all their bad habits which have been forced on them in the disposal of their raw material. And, if the same agents themselves would import the cotton into England without the interference of the Native chitty, a still greater profit would be derived. We must remember that the Native weavers always offer a market for the indigenous cotton of the country, with which they produce cotton cloth of sufficient quality for the use of its inhabitants. The indigenous cotton plant is an annual, and in the American planters' estimation whom I consulted, was capable of considerable improvement in the length and strength of its fibre, so as to suit it for the machinery of this country. The Bourbon cotton in demand at Manchester for the coarser fabrics is a biennial. The Mexican and New Orleans cotton grown in India is of sufficient quality for the manufacture of the superior kind of cotton goods, but the quantity produced there is limited. Unless the Native cultivator is certain of an annual demand, not depending on a good or bad crop in the Southern States of America, he will neither grow the biennial nor the perennial species in sufficient quantity to be a substitute for a short supply from that country. He has his land tax to pay punctually at two periods of the year; and, therefore, he will only grow that species of cotton for which he has an annual market. Climate is of much greater consequence to the Mexican and New Orleans cotton plant than the soil in which it is planted; that is to say, that a superior climate with an inferior soil will produce a greater quantity and better quality of cotton than a superior soil with an inferior climate. The Southern States of America, bordering on the Gulph of Mexico, between north latitude 30 and 33 have great advantages over other countries in producing the Mexican and New Orleans species of cotton; the climate is very humid, causing heavy dews and thick fogs at night, which the bright sun that prevail in the morning and during
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  the whole day, dispels at the time the plant requires moisture most, and brings the bole to maturity in a manner that no artificial irrigation has been able to effect in India, except in small patches of gardens when watered with great care by artificial means. Artificial irrigation is accompanied by a great increase of insects which destroy the cotton wool in the pod before it comes to maturity. There are several reasons for trying to improve the indigenous cotton of India, It stands the three mouths of dry hot winds that blow over many of the cotton fields of India which are destruction to the exotic species, and as soon as the bole is gathered the Native cultivator grubs up the plant, prepares the land for another crop, sows, reaps, and markets it before the year has expired; and, consequently, has two certain crops to dispose of, with which he pays his land tax. The great defect in Indian cotton when compared with the Southern States' cotton is its want of the rich oily substance that is so conspicuous when handling it, and which may be attributed to the poverty of the soil from constant cropping, and the deficiency of home-made or artificial manure for enriching it, as well as the effect of hot dry winds. I have heard great anticipations raised on the effects of the skill and enterprise of the Anglo-Saxon in producing cotton in India, and it is alluded to by the petitioners, who contrast its absence in India as being the cause of America having hitherto obtained precedence over India in the cotton market. Now, my Lords, I attribute it to other causes. The climate of the cotton fields of the two countries is very different. That of the Southern States of America is between the latitude of 30 and 33 north, which is in a comparatively cool climate without the tropics; the cotton-producing country in India alluded to here is within the latitudes of 8 and 24 north. According to the information obtained from India on authority, as well as from other sources, the climate of the cotton fields does not appear to be suited to the European constitution, and, I feel assured, if an unacclimatized European who attended the fieldworkers, and the other duties he would have to perform, felt the heat of a tropical sun and the discomfort of the hot dry winds that blow for three months of the year over most of the cotton fields, and how little prepared he would be to encounter them, added to the other inconveniences he would have to overcome, which are greater than

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  in other countries, particularly in cultivation of the land, or in the propagation of the cotton plant in a climate of which he has no experience, and the hot sleepless nights he would have to endure, I think he would find it beyond his powers to undergo such fatigue, exposed as I have described his daily work to be. But if these anticipations had been attributed to the energy with which Europeans would introduce capital into India, which is so much required by purchasing cotton from the Native cultivators, then I should have willingly joined in all their expectations. For skill in cultivation in a tropical climate I know of no country which at different periods of its history has excelled India. I consider that my own native country is as far advanced in the highest principles of cultivation as any country I know in the present day, but when I look to the experience of India in times past I find many of the principles which guide us well known to that country from its earliest days. I shall now touch lightly on these questions to which I have previously alluded. It is unnecessary for me to occupy your Lordships' time by referring to the revenue system of Madras and Bombay (previous to the year 1852), the two presidencies where Ryotwar prevails, and where cotton is principally cultivated for export, as a material change took place in that year when real Ryotwaree became the revenue system of the Madras presidency. In the year 1852, under express orders from the Court of Directors, and with the concurrence of the local Governments of Madras and Bombay, a Standing Order was issued from the Revenue Boards of both presidencies that on no account should any extra cess be exacted from the ryot for any improvement made by himself on his farm and at his own cost. And that no interference should take place by the revenue officers with the ryots during thirty years which were the terms of the lease. This, in 1852, stood good for Bombay. In Madras the Government protested against a lease, as the ryots there held their farms in perpetuity provided they pay their kist punctually. At the same time they informed the Court of Directors that the ryotwaree in the Madras Presidency was considered, not only a3 a settlement of the land tenure in perpetuity, but also of the land tax. The minute of consultation of the Madras Government remained unanswered for seven years. In 1857 the Revenue Board of Madras in a public letter expressed a strong
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  opinion on this point in contrasting the ryotwar system of Madras and Bombay. An extract from the proceedings of the Board of Revenue, dated the 15th of July, 1857, No. 2,400, is as follows:—
  "Paragraph 13. It may not here be out of place to notice that a general opinion prevails in England that the Bombay settlement for thirty years secures a far greater permanence of tenure to the landholder than the present ryotwary tenure of Madras.
  "This is altogether an error, for a Madras ryot is able to retain his land in perpetuity without any increase of assessment as long as he continues to fulfil his engagements."
  All the ryots had to do in each presidency was to pay their land tax punctually, which was ordered by the authorities to be light, unvarying, laid on the land, and not on the crop. The Bombay Government reserved to itself power at the end of thirty years to reconsider the rate of assessment, to raise or to lower it, depending on the rise or fall of price. The Madras Government, according to the construction they put on the ryotwar tenure and land tax of that presidency, reserved no such power, as the ryot held both in perpetuity. At the same time in both presidencies the ryot is only liable for the assessment on the land which he holds in occupation. He has the privilege of transferring by gift or by sale, or to resign to the Government any field of his holding, and thus frees himself of his liability for paying the assessment on the land so given up. The ryot can extend his occupation by taking up fresh land by giving notice to the collector of his intention, and he, consequently, must pay the assessment fixed on that piece of land. In 1858 an order appears to have been sent out to the Madras Government from the Secretary of State in Council placing Madras on the same footing as Bombay, by giving the Government power to reconsider the rate of assessment of the land tax at the end of thirty years. It is a very objectionable course of proceeding to allow the Revenue Board to publish a new system of land tenures in the presidency without the sanction of the highest authority, as it is understood by the Natives that all orders issued by that body emanate with the authorities at home, and consequently become permanent. Your Lordships will naturally ask to what class of land are the fields that the ryots resign to Government transferred? The statement showing the extent and assessment of cultivable lands in the several districts of the Madras Presidency at the absolute disposal

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  of Government is distinguished under three heads. 1st. drear Ayacut—namely, Government land, after deducting Perumboke or immemorial waste, and Juams or rent-free lands. 2nd. The quantity of this land in occupation of ryots is stated to be 13,207,602 acres of irrigated and un-irrigated land. 3rd. The remaining waste or culturable land at the absolute disposal of Government is 13,554,333 acres; and if you select Bellary and Coimbatore, which are known to grow a good quality of cotton, these two districts united have an area of 4,800,000 acres of cultivable waste at the absolute disposal of Government. From this it would appear, as Europeans can hold such land on the same tenure as Natives, there should be no difficulty in supplying their wants. It must be remembered, however, that most of this waste laud is reported to be in. small patches, and so intermixed with the cultivable lands in occupation of the ryots. The desire, however, of the European being to purchase lands laying contiguous, or within a ring fence. It would be difficult to find so large a property as a European capitalist would desire to possess under these circumstances, unless he purchases land from the native ryots, and so squares his property, he cannot gain his object. I shall now draw your Lordships' attention to the land tenure on building land, and land occupied by buildings in Madras. The following is the Government order for its disposal:—
  "Land hereinafter sought for building purposes by Europeans or Natives, will be put up to auction sale, and sold out and out to the highest bidder, the upset price being twenty times the amount of the yearly quit rent or tax on the land. As soon as the transaction is concluded Government will give a freehold title deed."
  The local governments have had the power since 1837 of granting freeholds in land for building purposes. This power has only been fully carried out since 1859. Government resolved to make the order applicable also to the whole of the land on the Neilgherry, the Shevaroy and Pulney Hills, and to the coffee lands in the Wynaud-Talook. In the last mentioned case it will generally be the land tax, only that is redeemed, not the proprietor's fee or rent. Where the proprietor's right is vested in the Government they will be prepared to allow the redemption of the rent also. The Government is the proprietor of these lands, except where the Zemindars in Malabar or Wynaud have forest rights. In the Neilgherries any rights the Todac
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  have are settled by arbitration. At Tacatallo the ground on which the Wellington Barracks are built Government allowed an arbitration, and compounded with the Todas by a money payment. The foregoing contemplates the redemption and extinction of the land tax, by the payment of a sum equal to twenty years tax or quit rent. The next point to which I shall allude, is the first, second, and third class roads and canals in the Presidency of Madras and Bombay. Before referring to the returns made by the India Office on this head, I may remind your Lordships, that in 1844, by order of the noble Earl then Governor General, 40 lacs, or £400,000 of transit duties were repealed in the Madras Presidency, for relief to commerce; and in 1845 the Court of Directors sanctioned a sum of four lacs to be annually expended on the Trunk Roads of the Presidency, and it took three years to get the road establishment into working order. The second and third class roads are under the management of the different collectors, through whose districts they pass. In some districts they are very good: their state depends on the taste of the collectors for making roads, as no fixed allowance is sanctioned by Government for that purpose. From the year 1848 the returns commence, which show that up to 1859, 654 miles of first class roads, 3,709 miles of second and third class roads, and 502 miles of navigable canal, have been opened for traffic in the Madras Presidency, being in all, 4,905 miles of land and water carriage communication, at an expense of 1 croze and 14 lacs, or in English money £1,140,000 sterling; and the Governor General has lately sanctioned the expenditure of such sums of money in the different Presidencies as may be necessary to keep the district roads in fair order. These roads in the cotton districts, which in many cases are near the sea, have all been made with a reference to the convenience of traffic between the fields of production and the trunk road and railroad leading to the sea. In Bombay and Scinde, since 1848, of first, second, and third class roads and navigable canals, 6,896 miles have been opened for traffic. So that in the two Presidencies 11,801 miles of commuication have been opened since 1847. Your Lordships must remember that the material for making roads is difficult to be obtained in a champagne country, and it has generally to be brought from a considerable distance, which very

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  much enhances its price. From what I hear of the roads in Bombay and Madras, they are in very fair condition—very much improved of late years—and the authorities are quite alive to the absolute necessity of continuing their exertions in the same direction, for affording facility of transit to commerce. I now turn to the railroads which are under construction,—if I look to the southern point of India, on the maps published by orders of the House of Commons, showing the course of the trunk railways in that country, I find one from Negapatam to Palamacotah, leading-through the centre of Maduva and the east side of Tumevella, both cotton districts, each having a terminus on the sea coast. From Madras a railroad will be opened to Calicut, on the west coast, at the end of this year, which will pass through the centre of the Coimbatore cotton district. Another railroad from Bombay to Madras will pass through the cotton district of Sholapoor, the border of the Douale of Raichore, through Bellary, Caddapah, and the south end of Kurnoul, having a seaport at each terminus. The district of North Canava has been handed over to the Presidency of Bombay, and is about to have a second road made down the Coompta Ghaut to connect the cotton district of Dharwar with Shedashagur, the new sea port for the convenience of trade. From Bombay a railroad is to connect that port with Allahabad, on the great line of railroad leading from Calcutta to Lahore. It will pass through Candeish by Nursevabad and Tubblepoor round the north-west side of the Berar cotton country. A branch is to lead from Nursevabad to Nagpore, which will pass Oomroutee, the principal market for cotton in the north district of that far-famed valley for growing a superior quality of cotton, which is in extent of area four times the size of Ireland. The principal portion of the valley of Berar has no prospect of a railroad being carried through it. But the river Godavery, with its tributary streams, the Wurdah and Poornah, traverses these parts at a distance from railroad communication, and they only require the hand of the engineer to make them permanently navigable. Their eligibility for purposes of navigation has been pointed out by that eminent pioneer, Sir Arthur Cotton, whose time and thoughts have so long been engaged in laying down plans for improving the irrigation and navigation of the rivers in different parts of India, and recorded by Captain Haig, an
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  officer of engineers, well known for his experience and ingenuity in making rivers useful for purposes of navigation and irrigation, who has made surveys of the river and who has pointed out all the difficulties to be overcome in the bed of the Godavery. This officer has examined the rivers in America as well as in Europe, and reports that there are fewer difficulties in the Godavery than in many of the rivers to which his report refers in these parts. His report has been considered by the Governor in Council of the Madras Presidency, and has met with his highest approbation and recommendation to the Supreme Government of India to carry out Captain Haig's report. The resident of the Nizam at Hyderabad, Colonel Davidson, who is well acquainted with the Nagpore portion of the valley of Berar, as well as that which forms a part of the Nizam's territory, observes that the impetus which will be given to trade when the navigation of the Godavery is opened out will invite capital, and that population invariably follows is known to be an unerring law. We may, therefore, reasonably look forward to a large extent of waste land at no very distant period being brought under profitable cultivation. The Governor General in Council has all the information he can require to satisfy him on the advantage the manufacturers of cotton at Manchester and Glasgow would derive from the navigation of the Godavery being opened permanently. In a military and political point of view, statements and calculations on the economy of using the Godavery river for the conveyance of troops and stores in preference to the common road tracks of the country, have been submitted by the Madras Government to the Commander-in-Chief, the Inspector General of Ordnance, the Commissary General, the President at Hyderabad, and to the Commissioner of Nagpore, and the actual annual expense, so far as it can he represented in figures, now incurred in the conveyance of military stores to Hyderabad and Nagpore by the land route has been determined, and it is found to be about £18,350. The cost of transit of the above quantity of stores by the Godavery route would be £2,483; and the impression the above information appears to have produced on the mind of the Madras Governor is a thorough conviction of the desirableness of having the impediments to the navigation of the Godavery removed. He has, consequently, sanctioned three lacs, or £30,000, to be

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  spent this year on that operation, four lacs in 1862, four more in 1864. The cause of his Excellency having limited the sum is said to be occasioned by the deranged state of the finances, in consequence of the mutiny. Now, my Lords, I must call to your recollection what I stated to be the grounds of the petition—
  "That your petitioners are greatly alarmed at the prospect of a serious diminution in the future supply of cotton in this country, in consequence of the civil war now raging between the Northern and Southern States of America."
  And they point out that India possesses the capability of meeting the requirements of this country, not only as a source for the supply of cotton, but also as affording a market for the products of their industry. They further call attention to the advantage which must accrue to India, and to the cotton trade and commerce of this country, by the speedy opening of the navigation of the River Godavery. I believe the statement of the petitioners is founded on reasonable expectations. Is it necessary for me to remind your Lordships what would be the effect of four millions of our manufacturing population being put out of employment, should the alarming prospects of your petitioners be realized? and what prudent man would risk such an unfortunate state of things when it can be partially, if not wholly, remedied by the expenditure in time of so small a sum of money as that named by Captain Haig, to have the Godavery made navigable—an object so earnestly pointed out by your petitioners? I ask your Lordships whether it is not the duty of the Houses of Parliament to indemnify Her Majesty's Government under such circumstances, to raise a loan for the particular purpose of offering a cheap transit for cotton from the valley of Berar to the port of Covinga? The distance from Oomroutee by the railroad to Bombay is 470 miles. A ton of cotton going to Bombay must first ascend 2,000 feet to pass the Western Ghauts, and then descend 3,000 to the port, at a cost, according to the authority of the chief engineer of the Bombay and Nagpore line, of 2¾d. per ton per mile. Oomroutee, by the Wurdah and Godavery, including the contemplated canal to be made from Oomroutee to Natchengong, to which town the river navigation will be made complete, is a distance from Covinga of 530 miles, having a descent of 900 feet to that port; and Captain Haig, the engineer who has surveyed the river, calculated that when the
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  arrangements which attend the opening of the river for navigation are complete, such as steamers, boats, &c., the cost of carriage on the Godavery of a ton of cotton per mile ought not to exceed half that on the American rivers, or from one to three pice, ⅛th to ⅜ths of a penny, per ton per mile during nine months of the year. If the manufacturers of England would gain so much by the cheap and speedy carriage of their cotton by the navigation of the Godavery being opened to Covinga, what inestimable advantages it would also afford to the Native cultivator to have a cheap transit for his hemp, oil, seeds, hides, and other agricultural produce to the sea port, which are now conveyed on the backs of bullocks, or on miserable country carts, over tracks not deserving the name of roads. We must not forget that salt would be conveyed into the interior of the country, as a return cargo, at so trifling a cost as would place it within the reach and means of the Native to purchase it as a substitute for the earth salt, which is now the cause of so much disease to these living at a distance from the sea. An additional benefit would also be afforded to our merchants by a cheap transit for their manufactures to the markets of the Nagpore, as well as the Hyderabad territories. The expense of effecting this great object of economy will be at a cost of £300,000 to open the river for purposes of navigation, and an equal sum of £300,000 for making it a permanent work. I have now touched on these points of the petition on which I am enabled to form an opinion, founded on such information as I possess. I shall conclude by reminding your Lordships that India holds a prominent position in the minds of our fellow-countrymen. It contains much within her territories that will make her a valuable acquisition to Great Britain. She is worthy of your Lordships' experience in the establishment of efficient courts of law, which will afford protection to the ryot as well as security to capital and the means of enforcing the just fulfilment of contracts, and if our merchants will create a permanent demand for her raw produce, in return she will afford an ample market for all kinds of our manufactures.
  LORD HARRISsaid, he gathered from the terms of the memorial presented by the noble Marquess that the object of the memorialists was to insure such measures by the Government as would give every encouragement to the outlay of capital. He believed that British capital would be

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  expended in India with very fair prospect of a good return. As regards works of irrigation he knew, for the calculation had been made under his own direction, that the works in Tanjore had exceeded 100 per cent annual profit. On the Godavery returns had also been received, and he had known instances where the great Native proprietors would have been willing to advance money at 5 per cent to Government, to be expended in irrigation works by Government officers, on which a large profit could be made, but unfortunately the local Government had not the power to take up loans for such purposes. The memorialists alluded to a change in the tenure of land. He would most seriously deprecate any interference with the customs of the Natives, in that respect we had already received a severe lesson against arousing the fears and apprehensions of the Natives, and he knew no subject on which they were more jealous than that of the tenure of land. Much more had been done to facilitate communications than was generally supposed; the Government of India would have sanctioned more but for the pecuniary difficulties which the mutiny had entailed. He would not presume to enter upon the subject of the descriptions of cotton. He had no doubt that a large supply would be received, though probably not of the best sort.
  LORD BROUGHAMwas sure he only spoke the sentiments of every one of their Lordships when he offered to the noble Marquess his cordial thanks for the able and instructive statement he had made. He agreed with his noble Friend in thinking that the petitioners from Glasgow and Man Chester, with a view to increase the supply of cotton from India, ought to send over persons duly authorized by them to make the cultivators sure of a market by making arrangements for the purchase of their goods. With respect to the deficiency that might be occasioned by these most lamentable and deplorable events that were taking place in the United States—if he could still call them the "United" States-there were many difficulties in the way of receiving cotton from the East Indies as a substitute for American cotton. The climate on the other side of the Atlantic was, in many respects, much superior to that of India for the production of cotton. Their Lordships were aware that what was Called Sea Island cotton was, beyond all comparison, the best cotton that was produced, and that was, no doubt, the result of climate;
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  for the production of that cotton required not merely a moist climate, but a mixture in the atmosphere of saline particles with the moisture. He understood that the samples of cotton which came from India brought about 5d. a pound in the market, while cotton from America, and from these colonies to which he had called their Lordships' attention a few nights back, brought as much as 9d., 10 d., 1s., and even 1s. 2 d. a pound. There was nothing more certain than the capacity of our own West India Colonies to produce the best sorts of cotton. In Jamaica alone there were, he would not say millions, but hundreds of thousands of acres fit for the cultivation of the best quality of cotton, while there was a sufficient supply of hands among the free people of colour. White people as well as these people had two objections to work on the sugar plantations. In the first place, the labour under the sun of the country was too severe for whites; and, in the next, free people of colour had the natural objection to it that it was slaves' work. There had been efforts made in other colonies—in Trinidad and Demerara, for instance—to increase the number of hands, and this had led to the doubtful policy of advancing large sums of money for the purpose of encouraging immigration, which sums of money were advanced by way of loan, the interest to be paid by the planters. No doubt, there were objections to this system of immigration, and it ought not, on any account, to be allowed to take place in any colony where there was not an absolute want of hands. In Jamaica he might say, from information he had received, that the number of hands was almost unlimited, at least as regarded cotton lands. The same observation applied to Demerara and Trinidad. There was no difficulty in obtaining a sufficient number of hands for the cultivation of cotton in these colonies, and he believed that as much cotton could be obtained from them as would supply the utmost prohable—he would not say possible—deficiency likely to arise from the deplorable state of things in the United States. The supply of cotton from India at present did not amount to more than a ninth or tenth part of the quantity that came from America; but there would be no difficulty in obtaining from our West Indian Colonies, or from the growing source of supply on the African coast, as much cotton as would make up for any deficiency that might arise in the supply from the United States.
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH:—My Lords, it is quite impossible to overrate the importance of the question to which my noble Friend the noble Marquess (the Marquess of Tweeddale) has called Our attention; and I must express, as my noble and learned Friend (Lord Brougham) has done, my deepest thanks to him for the statement he has made; I think the House cannot but be grateful to the noble Marquess for the attention he has paid to this subject and for the speechhehas favoured us with—a speech full of valuable information, which it would be extremely difficult to obtain from any number of blue books, but which my noble Friend has placed before your Lordships in a most Useful and instructive manner. To a very large portion of the population of this country cotton is food—it can be regarded in no other light—and if the supply were Seriously reduced, the reduction would affect, not one, but every interest in the country. It would affect our commerce all over the world; it would greatly diminish Our exports; it would greatly diminish our facilities of obtaining the means of support, and altogether impair the strength of our resources. Feeling this, and hot entertaining all the sanguine views which my noble and learned Friend has expressed with reference to probable large arrivals of cotton from our West Indian colonies, I confess I feel deep alarm at the state of things on the continent of America; I am aware that certain measures are suggested by the petitioners with the view of obtaining supplies from other sources. It may be good and prudent to adopt these measures, but not one of them meets the emergency; and, therefore, what I should wish to know from Her Majesty's Government is, whether they have any plans in view—and, if so, what they are—to meet the difficulty which has come upon us? That difficulty is not One which has come on gradually, and which could have been perceived from year to year; it is a pressure that has come oh us suddenly; find I am sure I only give expression to that which must be in the minds of all your Lordships when I venture to observe that if there be any measures—no matter what they may be, or how much they may interfere with our ordinary rules of action—by which we can meet the emergency, it is our duty to adopt them. No doubt successive Governments and successive Governor Generals have done a great deal to improve the cultivation of cotton in India. I wish I could
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  say that they have accomplished what we must all wish to have been the result. But there can be no doubt that they have proved this—that under favourable circumstances India can produce, though not in very large quantities, cotton equal to the best cotton from America. I will further observe that, having considered this matter so long back as twenty years ago, I still adhere to ail opinion which I have for a considerable time entertained—namely, that the cotton which succeeds best in India is the indigenous cotton well cultivated. That succeeds better than any imported from abroad. No doubt it is of short staple, and not, perhaps, fit for the superior purposes to which some cotton is in this country applied. Many of our merchants are desirous of colonizing India, and getting possession of large quantities of land there for the purposes of cultivation; but owing to the system under which property is distributed in India it is impossible, without violating existing rights, to get possession of any considerable portion of the land; and we must not, to accommodate these persons, destroy the rights of the Natives. But I should think that, of all things, the most imprudent which any capitalist adventuring his money in India in the purchase of cotton could do would be to attempt to get possession of a large quantity of land in India for the purpose of planting and cultivating it. The safest thing for any person to do is to turn his capital as often as he can, to keep it in his own hands, to have no fixed place of residence, to use as much as possible the agency of the Natives, to buy what he can and to sell how he can. No doubt the Governors have at different times done as much as they could; but they have not been assisted to the extent they ought to have been—indeed, I do not know that they have been assisted at all—by the merchants of England. The only thing that can facilitate the continuous production of cotton in India is a continuous demand for it; and that demand has never been afforded. It is, therefore, a little too hard to throw the blame on the different Governments, and to expect that they should have brought about a state of things by which an enormous quantity of the raw material of our moist important manufacture should have been ready to meet the demand arising from the present emergency. I think it obvious that that would have been impossible. I must say, too, that, looking at the state of things now existing in Bengal

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  and Behar—when I see that the Anglo-Saxons, where they have occupied land to a great extent and existed as cultivators for a considerable number of years—unfortunately, perhaps, as a result of their occupation, and perhaps unwittingly, have led to a state of things by which the most tranquil and peaceable part of our Indian dominions has been brought to the verge of a general aggrarian insurrection—going not merely to the length of the non-performance of civil contracts, but to the extent of a refusal to pay rent for land—a state of things which was never heard of in that country before—when I see that in order to protect the interests of these planters it has been thought necessary to move large bodies of troops and battalions of armed police, and to pass an Act to make the non-performance of a civil contract a criminal offence; when I see these things, I confess I cannot say that this is the most favourable time at which gentlemen could ask Parliament to make arrangements for the first time for their introduction, as planters, into India. When at Allahabad, I recollect seeing near the cutcherry of the Commissioner a small plot of ground, not exceeding one or two acres, on which, like a sensible man, he had resolved to show the Natives the difference between their own mode of cultivation of cotton, and the improved method employed in the United States of America. One half of the land was devoted to the old system, and the other half to the new. Any one who went on the ground would in a moment see the enormous difference in the produce. This was not affected by the application of machinery, or by any extraordinary amount of labour, but by the more instructed application of labour. Having left the little field the visitor entered a small building, containing only two rooms, into one of which the cotton was conveyed to be cleansed, and into the other of which it was conveyed when cleansed. The visitor saw the article in its dirty state in one room; but in the other he was overwhelmed with flakes of the most beautiful snow. That little field and these little rooms told the whole history of the present difficulties and of the future prosperity of India in regard to the cotton cultivation. I recollect that there were Americans there who had superintended the cotton plantations, and they all concurred with me in opinion that if the Government could only do in other places, where cotton was cultivated, what that gentleman had done in that
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  place at his own expense, an example and instruction would be given which could not fail to have a most important effect upon the produce. At Allahabad the thing was done; an example was set, instruction was given with that example, and the result was advantageous. I ventured to suggest to the Court of Directors that the plan was worthy of imitation; but, certainly, my suggestion was not very favourably received; and when, in addition, I suggested that the great object of England should be to make herself independent of America for the supply of cotton, and that India could furnish the largest portion of what was required—it being a matter of comparatively small importance whether it was found in the territories of our allies or in our own—I was met with a sneer. Within three weeks after I went to the Board of Control, in 1828, I addressed the Court of Directors upon the subject of the cultivation of cotton, and since that time I have felt the deepest interest in the endeavours which have been made to render our country independent of the United States for the supply of the raw material of our most important manufacture. My Lords, I fear that it is not to a present emergency only that we have to look. I confess that I cannot look forward with any degree of hope to the early re-establishment in the United States of a state of things which would enable us to calculate with confidence on drawing the same, or anything like the same, supply of cotton that we have hitherto obtained from that quarter. We must, I take it, be prepared for a state of things which will oblige us to depend mainly on India, but also on other countries, for that supply of cotton which is essential to the commerce of this Empire, and, therefore, I await with great anxiety to hear what the noble Earl the Under Secretary for India may tell us as to the intentions of Her Majesty's Government on a subject of such national importance.
  EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, he entirely agreed in the opinion expressed by the noble Lord who had previously addressed the House, as to the great importance of this subject, and he also concurred in thanking the noble Marquess (the Marquess of Tweeddale) for the important remarks which his experience had suggested. It was impossible to over-estimate at the present moment the importance of any question connected with the supply of cotton to this country, and, therefore, it

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  was not surprising that the noble Marquess should have introduced the matter. He was happy to be able to say that there was on the part of Her Majesty's Government a general concurrence with the views of the noble Marquess. He was not, however, able to agree entirely in what he understood to be the prayer of the petition. The noble Earl who had just sat down (the Earl of Ellenborough) had asked whether Her Majesty's Government were about to adopt any special measures for the purpose of meeting the emergency which had arisen in consequence of the lamentable state of things that existed at the present time in our great cotton market, the United States? but he did not gather the nature of the measure he wished, or in what direction he thought Her Majesty's Government ought to advance to meet the difficulty.
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHsaid, he had proposed before, and he now suggested again, that there should be repeated by the Government everywhere where the Natives were employed in the cultivation of cotton the same teaching and example which he had just described as having been set by the enterprise of a private gentleman at Allahabad.
  EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, he had not understood the noble Earl to refer to that instance as a special measure to be adopted in the present crisis; but he would notice that point presently. With respect to measures of a wider and a more extensive nature, he was glad to find from the speech of the noble Earl that he was not inclined to add the weight of his high authority to one part of the prayer of the petitioners which related to the question of; the land tenure in India. On behalf of the Government, he had no hesitation in saying that the Government in this country and in India were anxious and willing to afford every means consistent with the safety of the great source of Indian revenue, and with a due respect to the rights of the present occupiers of land in that country for the acquirement and occupation by Europeans of land in India. His own individual opinion agreed with that of the noble Earl that the best course for capitalists to take to promote the cotton supply from India would not be to get large tracts of land into their own hands. At the same time, it must not be inferred that the Government were unwilling to see Englishmen settle in India, in order to cultivate cotton. On the contrary, as far as cotton could be grown profitably, the
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  cultivation of it by Europeans would be a benefit both to the Natives and to this country. When, however, the Government was asked to give facilities for the purchase of the fee simple of land in India—he supposed it was meant that the land should be put up for sale at an upset price, and that when once purchased it should be for the future free from all charges of land revenue—it would be unbecoming for him to attempt to add anything to the remarks of the noble Baron (Lord Harris). Whatever fell from the noble Baron was entitled to the highest consideration from their Lordships, not only from his intimate knowledge of the Madras Presidency, but from the great attention he had paid to this particular subject, and the beneficial and important changes which had been introduced under his auspices. Nothing, therefore, which fell from him (Earl de Grey) could add to the force of the noble Baron's remarks. He (Earl de Grey) would only add that the Government were not prepared to take a course which they believed would endanger a great source of Indian revenue, and interfere with the just rights of the ryots, who were not the mere tenants-at-will of the Government. He would proceed to consider the measure suggested by the noble Earl (the Earl of Ellen-borough). The noble Earl, in speaking of the results which in certain districts had attended the actual cultivation of indigo—results which he believed did not exist in the indigo districts elsewhere—said that amongst other measures had been the establishment of a law for making contracts penally enforcible.
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH: I said that such a law did once exist.
  EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, that that was so. The present Bill relating to the same subject had not yet passed. The second reading, as the noble Earl was, no doubt, aware, was suspended for the present. He then came to the consideration of the measure which had been suggested by the noble Earl, and he did not deny that it was most important to have in each cotton district the means of showing to the ryots what description of cotton would suit the English market, the best manner of cultivation, and the best mode of preparing it. But it appeared to him that upon all sound economical principles it was more desirable that such information should be conveyed to the ryots through the means of these who required the supply of cotton than by the establishment of Govern-

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  ment model farms in every district in India. Such establishments could not be nearly so well conducted, or be so satisfactorily adapted to express the wants of the English market, as these which were established expressly by these who were directly interested. He must say it did appear to him one of the most important steps which could be taken at the present moment by these who were interested in the growth of cotton, that they should themselves send out agents to the country, who should go into the districts, communicate directly with the cultivators, and explain to them the requirements of the market in England, without the intervention of the present series of middle men, in the hands of every one of whom the crop was subject to deterioration. He trusted that steps of that kind were likely to be adopted; but these duties devolved properly on these who were purchasers of cotton. There were other things which required to be done. One of the most important of these, which had been adverted to by the noble Marquess, was the increased facility of communication with the interior. With regard to this point he had to state that, in spite of the financial difficulties in which India was how involved, it was not the intention of Her Majesty's Government to suspend the carrying out of these important branches of communication, the railways. It was thought necessary that these works should be brought as speedily as possible to completion. The noble Marquess, however, spoke not only of railways, but of another most important means of communication; he meant that which would be afforded by the river Godavery, if the navigation were improved and made available for the conveyance of cotton to the sea. Certain sums had been already voted by the Government of India for the carrying out of these works; and that very day a despatch had been received from the Madras Presidency stating that it was intended to apply, during the remaining portion of the then financial year, the whole of the sums that had been voted for the improvement of the Godavery. The petitioners suggested that Government should call for a loan to complete these great undertakings; but their Lordships must bear in mind the large demands that would be made this year upon the money market for the completion of railways in India. It was impossible for him then to enter into details, as the Secretary of State for India had given notice that on Monday he should make a statement upon
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  that subject, and he would not anticipates him. He could only say that; however willing and anxious Her Majesty's Government might be to complete the scheme, it was very doubtful whether, looking at the sums which the right lion. Gentleman might have to obtain from the money market for the completion of railways, either by direct loans, or through the railways themselves, the Government would be able to raise an additional sum for that purpose. He understood from a casual observation that fell from the noble Marquess, that, besides land tenure in India and facilities of communication, one other point was alluded to by the petitioners—namely, the extension of civil courts, the improvement of procedure in India, and the enactment of some such law as that very measure which the noble Earl had condemned so strongly. With regard to the extension of civil courts in India, there was every disposition on the part of the Government to extend them whenever the case would justify such a measure; as the necessity arose they would be extended. With regard to procedure, undoubtedly there had been the very great evil of delay; but the code of civil procedure passed in 1859 had now come into operation, and from the reports received he believed it would be found that the results were most important and satisfactory. He trusted this would remove a large portion of the objections which had been urged by the petitioners, and which he believed applied more to the former than to the present state of things. He did not think there was any other point alluded to in the course of the debate on which it was necessary for him to offer any explanations. With regard to measures taken by the Government for dealing with this emergency he could only say that every effort would be made, consistently with the urgent demands of Indian finance, to open communications and increase facilities for bringing cotton from the cotton districts to the coast. But in dealing with questions affecting the finance of India they must not overlook what was due to that country from which the Indian revenues were raised; and it was their bounden duty to bring the finances of India at the earliest possible period into a sound and satisfactory position. He could at the same time assure the noble Marquess, and those in whose behalf he had presented this petition, that the Government were fully sensible of the vast importance of the question to which he had called the attention of their Lordships. The constant attention of

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  his right hon. Friend was devoted to it, and whatever could be done consistently with sound principles and with what was due to the Natives of India, would be done to facilitate the supply of cotton from India to this country.
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH: The simple plan I suggested was this—to teach the people of India generally in the cotton districts how, by the same amount of labour, better applied, they may raise much cotton instead of little, and good instead of bad, and afford them the means of cleaning their cotton—as essential as their raising it. That measure, if adopted, possesses the advantage, which no other offers; it affects the very next crop; it may nearly double the quantity of usable cotton produced next season. I ask this as food for the people, and the noble Earl gives me a small piece of political economy. My Lords, I see, and I regret to see, in the speech of the noble Earl the proof that Her Majesty's Government do not comprehend the extent of the danger with which we are threatened, and that they are not prepared to meet, as they ought, the emergency that has arisen.
  House adjourned at half-past Seven o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.