Lords Sitting of 18 March 1861

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Queensland Government.
2a Lunacy Regulation; Red Sea and India Telegraph.

DENMARK AND HOLSTEIN.

  QUESTION.
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH: My Lords, I rise to put a question to the noble Lord the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, of which I have given him private notice, relative to a subject which is assuming a very grave importance. I allude to the differences which have long existed between Germany and Denmark in regard to Holstein. My Lords, even if those differences in their result were only likely to affect the Powers immediately concerned, they would have deserved a great deal more attention than they had hitherto received; for, undoubtedly, an alteration in the balance of power in the north of Europe which practically would impair the strength of Denmark, and thereby render her less independent in guarding the Sound, could not be viewed with indifference by this country. But it is not so. Those differences are calculated to be attended with a still more serious consequence. They are calculated to affect the peace of Europe, or rather perhaps—to speak more correctly—to affect the state of armed truce in which Europe now stands; and this, my, Lords, not at a distant date—not at an uncertain period, but within the next nine days. If the Diet of Germany should adhere to its expressed determination, before we meet again after Easter the fatal step may have been taken and war have been commenced in Europe. My Lords, the demands addressed to Denmark are, in the opinion of the Danes, such as, if complied with, would affect the honour of that country and impair her integrity, and Denmark has declared that with these demands she will not comply. Accordingly to the utmost of her power she has armed her people in self-defence. She has, in fact, done that which might have been expected from a noble and valiant people. My Lords, what are those demands? There are three points:—first, a denial on the part of the Diet that any financial laws passed by the authority of Denmark can affect Holstein, without the consent of Holstein; secondly, a demand on Denmark that she shall make no common laws affecting the rest of the kingdom and also affecting Holstein, without the consent of Holstein; thirdly, a declaration on the part of the Diet, that unless within six weeks from the passing of the Act passed in February—which period will expire on the 27th of March—the King of Denmark shall declare

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  that he will not pass any law to affect Holstein, without the consent of Holstein, the Diet will proceed to the execution of the measures which, in the event of a refusal, it has announced its intention to adopt. Now Denmark in reply to those demands declares that it is beyond the competence of the Diet to make them. In that view she is supported by the King of the Netherlands in his capacity of Duke of Luxembourg, who takes the same ground. She considers that the compliance with the demand is inconsistent with the integrity of her power, and would make it impossible for her to carry on the Government. The impression entertained there evidently is that this second demand gives to Holstein a veto on the common laws of Denmark, and thereby practically establishes her as an independent Power, and impairs the action of the Danish Government. While, however, Denmark is resolved not to accede to these demands I understand she has made certain concessions. She called together the States of Holstein, which met on the 6th of March, and she submitted to them the principles of a new constitution of a most liberal character, comprising many of the best features of our own constitution—such as an Upper and Lower Chamber, entire security of person, the independence of the Judges, and various other principles consecrated by custom among ourselves. If Holstein should accept this proposal it would then be submitted to all the States of Denmark, to which this constitution was to apply; but if Holstein should not accede to it, it was proposed that there should be a Provisional Government for Holstein alone, until that happy period arrived when she could consent to form part of the general State. I believe nobody unacquainted with the former constitution of Holstein can understand the various changes introduced in this provisional constitution, but they are represented to be of a very liberal character, and grant to Holstein all that she can justly require, though they do not amount to a direct acquiescence in the demands of the Diet. I wish to look forward rather than backward. I have no wish to go back to the history of the connection between Denmark and Holstein, which has existed 400 years. During this period, whatever mutual causes of complaint may have existed, Holstein has actually acquired a great amount of prosperity, which united to her wealth and position, has attracted to her the attentions and patronage of the German States. Neither will I refer to a more
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  recent period, when Holstein, misled by the fever of excitement prevailing in 1848, entertained projects inconsistent with her fealty to the Danish Crown. Nor will I inquire whether the German Diet has been actuated by perfectly conscientious motives, and has endeavoured simply to discharge the duty imposed on it by the constitution of the German States; nor, on the other hand, whether she is actuated by interested motives, and desires to separate Holstein from Denmark in order to acquire ports and a position in the Northern Sea which would make Germany a naval Power. But this I know, that the moving power is not the general body of the States of Germany—the moving power is Prussia, The real question is, whether Prussia, in the name of the Diet, shall detach the territory of Holstein from Denmark. I will assume that the King of Denmark remains determined to adhere to his opinion, and not to acquiesce in the demands of the Diet. Will the Diet proceed to execute its purpose—that is, will Prussia march an army into Holstein? If so, Prance will march an army to the Rhine. And more than that, with her great power of transporting troops by sea, she will send a corps ďarnée to the assistance of the Danes; and Prussia, having placed herself in a perfectly false position, France will have the greatest advantages in carrying on war against her. It is essential to the success of Prussia in a war with France that everything on the right of the Elbe should be friendly, or at least neutral. By the false step she meditates she would place an enemy's army there. At what a period, if she be so minded, would Prussia engage in this unfortunate contest! Where is she to look for assistance? The armies of Austria are occupied in watching the Italians, in protecting the Quadrilateral, and in repressing the excitement which prevails in Hungary. Austria is unable to move to her support, whatever her distress. Is Russia in a position to do so? Even before the intimation which we received from Warsaw, I did not believe that she had it in her power to render assistance. The Emperor of Russia has thought fit, from a generous impulse, and possibly from enlightened and politic motives, to make a great social revolution, extending throughout the whole of that country, and completely altering the relations between property and labour. This, therefore, is not a favourable opportunity to engage at the same time in a great foreign war. Further than that, these—I

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  cannot call them insurrections, but these disturbances at Warsaw altogether change the position of Russia. However great the prudence of Prince Gortschakoff, whatever may have been the moderation and good sense of the Emperor in dealing with the difficulty which has arisen, there can be no doubt that at the present moment Russia could not move 150,000 men over the Vistula without having another 150,000 to guard her communications, and these reinforcements would have to pass through an excited territory and a disaffected population. Prussia, therefore, cannot look for assistance from Russia. Is this a moment when she ought to think of engaging in a war in which France will take part? A time may come—much as I should regret it—when France may attack Prussia; but let her not provoke hostilities, let her wait till she is attacked, and then let her rally round her the whole of Germany in defence of right. But if, unassisted, she opposes herself to a Danish army of 30,000 men, reinforced by an army of Frenchmen, she is perilling all that remains of the treaties of 1815, and perhaps even perilling her own existence. I have thought it right, in deep apprehension of the consequences which may very soon ensue, to call the attention of Her Majesty's Ministers to this subject. I have no reason to entertain any doubt that they have already foreseen the dangers which I have intimated, nor will I question that they have taken every step which to them appeared right for the purpose of averting these dangers but, under the circumstances, before we separate, I think we ought to know what they have done, and we ought to know what hopes they entertain of averting the danger which is so pregnant with ruin to Prussia and with difficulty to the rest of Europe. To enable Her Majesty's Ministers to make this statement to the House, I now ask the noble Lord the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, In what position the difficulties which have arisen between Denmark and Germany with respect to Holstein now stand?
  LORD WODEHOUSEsaid, the noble Earl, in the very remarkable speech which he had just addressed to the House, had not at all exaggerated the importance of the question he had brought under their Lordship's notice. The noble Earl had stated with as much ability as clearness the considerations which rendered a settlement of the Holstein question vital to the interests of Europe. The question was
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  one which it was very difficult to understand in all its bearings; its leading features were intelligible, but it would be very difficult to follow it through the complicated negotiations which had taken place between Germany and Denmark. The demand of the Diet, to which the noble Earl alluded, related to what was called the provisional position which Denmark wished to have established. The explanation of the demand, he believed, was that after the difficulty which led to the war between Denmark and Germany promises were made by the King of Denmark that there should be a common constitution for the whole of the States as regarded certain departments—Foreign Affairs, the Marine, War Department, the Post, and one or two others which were obviously points of common interest. These promises were given in a Proclamation by the King of Denmark in January, 1852; and in pursuance of that promise a scheme was submitted; first, to Denmark Proper, then to Schleswig, and also to Holstein. But, although this common constitution was accepted by the other portions of the kingdom, it was not accepted by the States of Holstein. Holstein demanded a larger share of power than he thought she was entitled to, and, therefore, as far as she was concerned, the constitution fell to the ground, and was formally annulled by the King in 1859. The Diet then demanded that a provisional arrangement should be made as regarded the State of Holstein, by which no law should be passed affecting that State—even with respect to the common affairs of the monarchy—without its consent being obtained. The Danish Government, although they had refused to comply with the demands of the Diet, made certain proposals to the States of Holstein, which were described by the noble Earl with great correctness. In those offers the Danish Government proposed, as he understood, that the States of Holstein should have the power of voting what was called the normal budget. The proposal was that there should be a fixed sum, which should always be paid by Holstein towards the common affairs of the monarchy; that that sum having been voted once for all, any excess should require the consent of the States of Holstein. But it seemed that the Danish Government made one reservation. They demanded that until the year 1862 the Budget, which had been fixed by decree of the King for two years, should remain in force. To that the States

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  very strongly objected; and Her Majesty's Government had that day received intelligence from Copenhagen that the King of Denmark had conceded that point, and had consented that the whole Budget should, to adopt the expression used in the intelligence, "be submitted to the deliberative vote of the States of Holstein." This point was of the more importance because a very short time subsequent to the demand of the Diet Her Majesty's Government, acting in concert with the Governments of Prance and Russia, recommended to Denmark to submit to the States of Holstein the Budget for the common affairs of the monarchy, because they thought that at any rate those States should have the power of saying yes or no to a proposal so important to their interests. The Danish Government had replied to that desire expressed by the three Great Powers of Europe in the manner he had mentioned; and Her Majesty's Government could not but hope that the Prussian Government, which, as the noble Earl correctly says, is principally concerned, will see in this the means of arriving at a satisfactory termination of this most unfortunate dispute. They had all along given conciliatory advice to both the Danish and the Prussian Governments, and had recommended them to be conciliatory towards each other, and to seek for some pacific solution of this question. He would not any more than the noble Earl go into the various matters in discussion between Denmark and the Diet of Germany and Prussia, but he could not help saying that it seemed to him that both parties had been considerably in fault. On the one side the German Governments had undoubtedly made demands which appeared to go beyond the concessions promised by the Danish Government in 1850 and in 1851; and on the other side he did not think that the Danish Government was entirely exempt from the charge of not having treated with entire equality the Danish and German population in the duchy of Schleswig; but the fact was that other questions lay behind the questions which were immediately in discussion. The original question was the union of Holstein and Schleswig, and, although in the discussions which were now going on the duchy of Holstein alone appeared to be concerned, the question of the duchy of Schleswig lay behind that question, embittered the relations between Germany and Denmark, and had hitherto rendered
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  ineffective all efforts at conciliation. Denmark had great reason to complain of the agitation Which had been excited throughout her provinces by the manner in which this question had been put forward; but at the same time she, in her natural anxiety to support Danish nationality, had not observed strict impartiality. At the present moment, however, he thought that Denmark had shown a spirit of conciliation, which ought to induce Germany to come to an arrangement with her; and he was quite certain that those dangers to which the noble Earl had called attention, and which embraced questions of far greater scope than that of Denmark and Holstein, ought to weigh strongly with the German Confederation and with Prussia, and ought to lead them, instead of irritating Denmark, a State which, although small in position, is of great importance to Germany and Europe, to seek means by which she might be converted into a firm and useful Ally to the Confederation.
  Before sitting down he would take the opportunity of stating in reply to a question which was put to him by the noble Viscount (Viscount Stratford de Redcliffe) the other evening, that his noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Office was of opinion that he could not consistently with the interests of the public service produce the despatches which had been received from Her Majesty's Consul General at Warsaw with reference to the recent disturbances in that city.
  VISCOUNT STRATFORD DE REDCLIFFEsaid, that he was not surprised at the answer which had been given by his noble Friend, but he did expect that, considering the importance of the subject, his noble Friend would have taken the opportunity of stating the circumstances as they had been reported to the Foreign Office. It would appear that the promises which had been received from the Russian Government were not by any means so satisfactory as their Lordships might have been led to imagine; because, although it would seem that there was an intention to establish a Council at Warsaw, and to allow the country to elect municipal councils throughout the kingdom, yet there was no appearance of any intention to place at the head of the Council any person upon whom the Polish nation was at all likely to rely. If that proof of sincerity were not given by the Russian Government it would not be surprising if the effect upon the Polish people, excited as they were by the loss of

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  life which took place a few days ago, should be such as to occasion fresh riots and outbreaks, which might prove dangerous to the peace of Europe. He had heard with satisfaction the opinions which his noble Friend opposite had expressed so clearly and powerfully with reference to the differences between Denmark and the German Confederation, and he trusted that what had fallen from the noble Earl might have sufficient influence to give us another chance of preserving peace, and avoiding the settlement of these disputes by an appeal to arms.

DEATH OF HER ROYAL HIGHNESS THE DUCHESS OF KENT.

  ADDRESS OF CONDOLENCE TO THE QUEEN.
  EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, I have a melancholy duty to perform; but I have, at least, the satisfaction of knowing that I carry with me the concurrence of all parts of the House. We all know the feelings of loyalty and affectionate devotion to the Queen which are entertained, not in this House only but by the whole country, and, therefore, I have no occasion to say how warmly all sympathize with Her Majesty on the present occasion. My Lords, I have to move an Address of Condolence to Her Majesty on the great domestic affliction which has befallen her in the death of her mother. Your Lordships are all aware that her late Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, after a brief period of domestic happiness with her second husband, the Duke of Kent, was left in this country the guardian of that illustrious lady under whose beneficent rule we have the happiness to live. Since that melancholy event, with the exception of the loss of her eldest son, a few years ago, her life has been one of great prosperity and success. From the moment of her arrival in this country she enjoyed great popularity among all classes of the people down to the close of her existence the other day. She had the gratification of seeing her first family gain general esteem and respect, and received in the closest bonds of friendship and affection in their exalted position of life; and she had the satisfaction of seeing one of her grandchildren greatly distinguishing himself, even to the risking of his life, in the naval service of the country which she had adopted. She had further the satisfaction of beholding her youngest brother profit-
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  ing, not only by his own ability in administration, but by the information as to constitutional Government which he had acquired in England, to lead a friendly neighbouring country to the full appreciation of free and liberal institutions. The great historical event, however, in the life of her Royal Highness is her charge of the only child of her second marriage. In the twelfth year of Her Majesty's life her Royal Highness was unanimously chosen by Parliament as the Regent of the country, in the event of the Sovereign's death while his successor was in her minority. Many of your Lordships may recollect that admirable speech of Lord Lyndhurst on the subject of the Regency, in which he dwelt on the manner in which, up to that time, her Royal Highness had conducted the education of her child, and which particularly pointed her out for the important and responsible duty which she was then appointed to perform. Six years afterwards she saw that daughter, at the early age of eighteen, almost before she had arrived at the years of womanhood, placed in the most difficult and responsible position which any one of her age and sex could possibly occupy—the ruler of one of the greatest kingdoms in the world. In her daughter's reign she beheld the beneficial effects of her previous education, and the influence of those personal qualities which she had fostered and developed. Soon after she saw her daughter, of her own free choice, contract a marriage which has been of great advantage to this country, and which has led to a degree of domestic happiness not to be surpassed in any sphere of life. She saw her daughter reign for nearly a quarter of a century during times of national glory and prosperity quite unexampled. She saw her bring up a numerous family in a manner that gives us the promise that her children will emulate her own private and public life. She had the satisfaction of seeing her eldest granddaughter, by her excellent qualities and liberal accomplishments, gain the attachment of the heir of a neighbouring ally, and give birth to a son who will probably one day become the Sovereign of that country. She had seen the other children of the Queen visiting various parts of the world, and strengthening by their personal behaviour that respect for the Royal family of England which prevails so widely, and which, if I am not misinformed by my noble Friend behind me (the Duke of Newcastle), amounts in the colonies, which are

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  connected with us by every tradition of birth and history, to a feeling of the most profound veneration and affection for the Queen. Her Royal Highness, having seen all this, had lived beyond the period which the Psalmist tells us is allotted to the age of man; and showed at the close of her long life, by the presence of her family, singular patience and resignation under a most cruel malady. It must appear to your Lordships that all these reflections are of consolation to the Queen. Your Lordships cannot be unaware how strong were the ties which bound together the illustrious mother and daughter, how deep are the domestic feelings of the Queen, and how few trials of this sort she has experienced. You may, therefore, readily conceive the profound affliction into which our Sovereign is now plunged; and when I ask you to agree to this Address of Condolence, I feel assured that you will do so not as a mere matter of routine, nor yet as a mere proof of that loyalty of which there can be no question in this House, but as an expression of your genuine, heartfelt, and respectful sympathy with our gracious Sovereign in her present grief. My Lords, I beg to move—
  "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty to condole with Her Majesty on the Death of Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, and to express to Her Majesty the sincere Regret of this House at that melancholy Event; and to assure Her Majesty that this House will ever feel the warmest Interest in whatever concerns Her Majesty's domestic Relations; and to declare the ardent Wishes of this House for the Happiness of Her Majesty and of Her Family."
  THE EARL OF DERBY: I am sure, my Lords, that speaking on behalf of noble Lords on this side of the House, I may express their entire concurrence in the sentiments that have been expressed by my noble Friend opposite. It is hardly necessary that I should say anything with respect to the Address itself, because I am convinced, with my noble Friend, that that Address will be sanctioned unanimously by the House, not as a matter of form and ceremony, but as an expression of the fullest sympathy and affection, which not only pervades this House, but extends itself to all the people of Her Majesty's dominions. Her Majesty, in the course of her happy reign, has so closely identified herself with the interests of her people, has so completely twined around the Throne the loyalty and affections of her subjects, and has made their feelings and wishes so far the guide of her own feelings and wishes,
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  that it is impossible that any event interesting in the slightest degree Her Majesty's feelings should not at the same time call forth the warm and cordial sympathy of the whole people. We rejoice in any circumstance which can add to Her Majesty's happiness. We regret that even the slightest cloud should for a moment overshadow her. We cannot, then, withhold the fullest tide of our sympathy and the expression of our loyal affection at a moment when Her Majesty is visited by an affliction the very deepest which has yet befallen her—an affliction which involves all the purest, dearest, and deepest affections of our nature. I am satisfied that your Lordships will give a cordial and ready support to the Address of Condolence. And although no one can doubt that under such circumstances as the present Her Majesty must derive some consolation from the reflection that during the whole period of her life she has discharged the duties of a daughter in the same exemplary manner as she has fulfilled the duties of her private, social, and public life, I cannot but entertain the hope that it may be some alleviation to Her Majesty's deep affliction to be assured that she carries with her not only the entire sympathies of this House but the deep affection and cordial participation in her sorrow of the whole of her attached and devoted people.
  Motion agreed to, Nernine Dissentiente.
  Ordered, That the said Address be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.

LUNACY REGULATION BILL.

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR,in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, said a great deal had been done to improve the position of lunatics by his noble and learned Friends Lord Brougham, Lord Lyndhurst, and Lord St. Leonards, but a great deal remained to be accomplished. There were many persons of unsound mind possessing a small amount of property which a Commission of Lunacy would wholly absorb; but unless there was a Commission the property could not be made available for the benefit of the owner. It was proposed by the Bill that if it were made out to the satisfaction of the Lord Chancellor that these persons, who had incomes under a fixed sum, were lunatic, and if after notice the lunatic made no objection,

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  the Lord Chancellor should have the power to dispose of the property as if a Commission had issued and they had been found insane by the ordinary method of proceeding. He admitted that it was a very stringent measure, and one which he should not propose if he did not think it absolutely required. But he did think this power very necessary, inasmuch as there were a great number of cases in which small properties to which lunatics were entitled were withheld from them, owing to the present defective state of the law. A list of cases had been supplied to him by the Lunacy Commission, in which money was withheld from them, the Lord Chancellor having no power to interfere because no inquisition had taken place. In 1858 a governess, at that time lunatic, became entitled to about £100, and it continued to this day to be held by a joint-stock bank, who refused to pay it over without the authority of the Lord Chancellor. The Lord Chancellor could give no authority unless a Commission found her insane, and the expense would wholly absorb the property. In September, 1858, A. B., then in a country asylum, became entitled to a legacy of £200. His own funds were exhausted, and the trustees refused to apply the legacy for his benefit, because they could receive no proper discharge. There was a patient in St. Luke's Hospital possessed of £100 in a saving's bank. His wife could not maintain him; she could scarcely maintain herself. She had repeatedly requested the Commissioners to appropriate the money to his use, but they had no power to do so. There were other cases to the same effect, but if the Lord Chancellor for the time being were intrusted with the power proposed it would be always exercised for the benefit of the unhappy lunatics. Another improvement he proposed to make was in respect of the traverse of an inquisition; he proposed that the traverse should not be of right, but may be granted by the Lord Chancellor. By the present law a person of whose lunacy there was not the smallest doubt could insist upon a second inquiry; but the whole property of lunatics was frequently wasted by unnecessarily multiplying inquiries. Some years ago a Mrs. Cuming, after an inquiry which lasted sixteen days was found lunatic on very satisfactory evidence. She insisted on another inquiry. Lord St. Leonards saw her, and tried to dissuade her; but whether from her want of understanding or from her being prompted
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  by others who might have had mercenary motives, she persisted, and another inquiry would have taken place had not Providence interfered and cut her life short. It was proposed by the Bill to give the Lord Chancellor a discretion to grant or refuse a second inquiry, after having seen the lunatic and taken the best means in his power to come to a right conclusion. Another important improvement was provided for in respect of the visiting of lunatics. It would be the duty of Visitors to visit lunatics, and to make inquiries and investigations as to their care, treatment, mental and bodily health, and the arrangements for their maintenance and comfort, in such manner as the Lord Chancellor, by his general or special orders, should from time to time direct. All lunatics in licensed houses were to be visited once a year; in addition to visits by Commissioners, and all other lunatics twice a year. With regard to the officers in lunacy the Visitors and Registrar were to hold office during good behaviour, the Lord Chancellor having power to remove them. Power was also given to the Lord Chancellor to allow pensions to the present Visitors if they desired to retire, and to future Visitors if afflicted with permanent infirmity; such pension* would come out of the Suitors' Fee Fund. Two of the present Visitors had been office about thirty years. He believed they had done their best to discharge the duties imposed on them; but they were now of a very advanced age and physically unfitted; to continue in office. It had been proposed that the Chancery Visitors should be abolished, and that lunatics under the charge of the Lord Chancellor should be visited by the Visitors of the General Lunacy Board. He was afraid, however, that this proposition could not be carried out. The General Board had already more to do than they could well get through, and if there were any increase to their numbers it must be at the public expense; whereas the Chancery Visitors did not cost the public anything. It had been proposed, too, in order that the General Board might take charge of them, that the Chancery Lunatics should be brought together, in the neighbourhood of some central railway station; but this was absolutely impracticable. They were scattered about the country in their own houses, among their friends, or in the charge of clergymen, physicians, and so on, so that it was impossible to bring them all together. It was most essential, too, that there should be direct communi-

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  cation between the lunatics and the Court, and this could only be done by releasing the Chancery Visitors. The only other provisions of the Bill were one for declaring that Masters in Lunacy should not be able to sit in the House of Commons, about which a doubt had been raised a short time ago; and another to make the registrar in lunacy a permanent officer.
  Moved, that the Bill be now read 2a.
  LORD CRANWORTHwas understood to recommend other improvements in the Masters in Lunacy offices, and with that view he hoped the Committee would not be proposed till after Easter.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORthought his noble and learned Friend would find that all which the Committee of the House of Commons had recommended had been provided for by this Bill.
  THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURYheartily concurred in the principle and detail of the Bill, which he believed to be calculated to promote the welfare of this unhappy class of persons. It was absolutely necessary that something should be done to protect lunatics possessed of a small amount of property. The cases mentioned by the noble and learned Lord were merely representative cases; many others equally striking might have been brought forward. It was not the General Lunacy Commissioners who had proposed that the Chancery lunatics should be transferred to them, for they had already a great deal more work than they could do; but it was the wish and desire of the House of Commons, as the system of Chancery inspection was so imperfect and infrequent, that the visitation should be transferred to the General Board. The Board said they would be perfectly ready provided certain facilities were given to them. If the noble and learned Lord desired to retain the visitation in the hands of the Court, he hoped that the Visitors would be required to devote themselves exclusively to the work. It would not do for them to devote one-half of their time to visiting, and another part to the general duties of their profession. Their whole time, strength, and attention must be given to the visitation, otherwise the system would not attain that degree of efficiency which the noble and learned Lord desired.
  Motion agreed to.
  Bill read 2a accordingly; and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on the First Sitting Bay after the Easter Recess.

THE GOVERNOR GENERAL OF INDIA.

  QUESTION.
  LORD LYVEDENrose to ask, Whether Her Majesty's Government had made any Arrangement for the continuance of Earl Canning in the Office of Governor General beyond the usual Period of Five Years? He did not ask the question from any wish that Parliament should interfere with the Government as to the advice they might tender to Her Majesty with respect to this important appointment, but because he thought the public were entitled to know in whose hands the government of India would be confided for some time to come, and whether or not, as he hoped it would, it would be left to the vigorous and able bands of Earl Canning. It appeared to him that the public mind had returned to the same stagnant state in which it was previous to the mutiny regarding questions of the greatest importance pending in India, for the settling of which a skilful, firm, and experienced man was necessary. First of all was that which related to the formation of the Legislative Council in India, and that question was one which he thought should be carried into effect by a Governor General of great experience, like Earl Canning. It was most inexpedient that a new hand should be sent out to form a new constitution for India. Then there was the question relating to the amalgamation of the army, and the question of the Supreme and Sudder Courts, which were matters of no easy accomplishment, and they should be entrusted to the able experienced, efficient, and vigorous hands of Earl Canning. Beyond all other questions was the one relating to the finances of India, as to which the people of this country were very much in the dark. Every mail brought letters from India, showing that it was utterly impossible that the deficiency in the revenue could be made up, while at the same time the Secretary for India said that next year, if not this, he would be able to make both ends meet. Another important question had arisen in reference to the famine in the North-West Provinces, which he feared would cause a deficiency in the revenue, if there had been no probability of one before. He would venture to say that not one of these many questions ought to be confided to persons in whom the country had not learnt to place considerable trust. It was not known whether Mr. Laing would pursue the same financial scheme as that proposed by his predecessor or not. Therefore he thought

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  that upon that head also they should require to know who was the person to be entrusted with the responsible Government of India. He said "responsible," because although it was alleged that greater responsibility and greater rapidity of decision had been secured by the recent changes in the Government of India, he did not see that either had been gained, and the responsibility was shifted from one shoulder to another as much as ever it was. If the real responsibility rested with the Governor General, it was of immense importance they should know to whose hands it was to be entrusted. Their Lordships knew that five years was the usual period for a Governor General to remain in India, and Lord Canning might be embarking at Calcutta at this very moment on his return to England, if no arrangement had been made to the contrary. He (Lord Lyveden) therefore hoped his noble Friend the Under Secretary for India would not think he was asking a question which could be considered impertinent or out of place in asking if any engagement had been made for continuing the services of Lord Canning in that highly important position of Governor General of India.
  EARL DE GREY AND RIPON: I agree in the estimate which my noble Friend has formed of the importance of the matters which are likely to engage the attention of the Government at home and in India in the course of the next few months; and I am not surprised that he is anxious to he informed whether the able man who has conducted the Government of India during the last five years is to be continued in his office, or whether in the ordinary course of things he will return to this country. Now, the five years of Lord Canning's Government expired at the end of February, and it has been arranged that he should, for the present, at all events, remain in India, and continue to hold the office of Governor General. No arrangement has been made as to the precise time of his return to England. That must, of course, be determined by the requirements of the public service and by Lord Canning's own convenience. But for the next few months, and these are likely to be a period of great importance, Lord Canning will continue in the office he has filled with so much advantage to India. In regard to the finances of India, although, no doubt, there will be a very extensive failure of crops in certain districts, we learn by the last accounts that rain has
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  begun to fall freely in the Punjab. We may, therefore, hope that the famine will not be so extensive, and that the failure of the crops will be less general and the sufferings of the people less intense than was at one time feared. I regret that my noble Friend thinks that my statement as to the course taken respecting the Legislative Council in India is so unsatisfactory; but I think my noble Friend derived from the statement an erroneous notion, if he supposed that there was likely to be any unnecessary delay on the part of the Government in making known to Parliament their decision on that important subject. I can assure my noble Friend that with regard to the union of the Supreme and Sudder Courts, the attention of my right hon. Friend (Sir Charles Wood) is being, given to that point, and I trust that shortly after the Easter recess my right hon. Friend will be in a position to state to the other House the course which the Government intend to pursue.

RED SEA AND INDIA TELEGRAPH BILL.

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY,in moving the second reading of this Bill, explained that in 1859 a Bill passed by which the then Government undertook to guarantee 4½ per cent on an expenditure of £800,000 for fifty years, conditionally, as was understood, on the line being laid and handed over in working order. In consequence of certain disputes which had arisen with the contractors, the law officers of. the Crown were called upon for their opinion, and they stated that under the terms of the contract the Government were not bound to pay this money, and not only were not bound to pay it, but would not be justified in paying it. Whether the contract as entered into was an improvident and unwise one their Lordships bad not now to consider. The question was now one of good faith, and it was the duty of the Government to see that the persons who entered into the contract should not be prejudiced by the technical difficulties which had arisen. A Bill was, therefore, introduced into the other House, declaring that the guarantee was not intended to be and is not conditional on the line of telegraph of the company being in working order; and to that Bill he hoped their Lordships would now give a second reading.
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House Tomorrow.
  House adjourned at a quarter after Seven o'clock till To-morrow, halt-past Ten o'clock.