HL Deb 30 July 1861 vol 164 cc1784-5

House in Committee (according to Order).

Clause 2 (Construction of Section 57 of 5 & 6 Will. IV. c. 76),

LORD WENSLEYDALE

moved the omission of the clause.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY

said, that provision was intended to establish beyond all doubt what had hitherto been the general rule.

LORD CHELMSEORD

condemned the clause. It might, perhaps, work very well in large towns where the mayor was generally a person of station, but would be productive of mischief in little places where the office was often filled by a small tradesman.

LORD BELPER

supported the clause.

LORD WYNFORD

said, the Lord Mayor of London did not preside simply because he was Lord Mayor, but because he had been for three years an Alderman, and had had experience in the discharge of duties pertaining to the office. He hoped their Lordships would pause before they allowed the mayors generally to supersede justices created by the Crown and approved by the Lord Chancellor.

LORD CRANWORTH

was convinced that the course proposed by the Bill was the correct one. It appeared certain that it had been the usage for the mayors to preside. The decision of the Queen's Bench was conclusive that they did not preside by right; but they could not alter the usage without casting a slur upon the mayors throughout the kingdom, and he considered nothing more socially important than to keep up the character of those who occupied that position. If the mayor of a town thought that another person might be voted to preside he would probably not attend the meetings at all, and that would not be desirable. They would do well, in his opinion, to assent to the Bill, which only kept matters in the state in which they were.

LORD DENMAN

said, he should vote with the noble and learned Lord (Lord Wensleydale).

On Question, Whether the said Clause shall stand Part of the Bill? their Lordships divided:—Contents 26; Not-Contents 25: Majority 1.

Resolved in the Affirmative.

Clause 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 (Boroughs having a separate Commission of the Peace to be deemed Towns Corporate for the Purposes of the Alehouse Licensing Act),

LORD WENSLEYDALE

moved the omission of this clause.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY

said, the effect of the Amendment would be to create an unreasonable distinction between towns which had Quarter Sessions and those which had not, and he should therefore oppose it.

After a few words from Lord CHELMSFORD

On Question, Whether the said Clause shall stand Part of the Bill? their Lordships divided:—Contents 26; Not-Contents 23: Majority 3.

Resolved in the Affirmative.

Remaining Clauses agreed to.

Amendments made; the Report thereof to be received on Thursday next.