PAPER MOVED FOR. (Hansard, 11 February 1861)

THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBY
rose, in pursuance of notice, to move for a copy of a Memorial from the Protestant Alliance, presented to Lord John Russell, on the subject of the alleged religious persecutions in Spain. The noble Marquess said, that when he gave notice of his intention to move for the copy of the memorial he mentioned to his noble Friend (Lord Wodehouse) that he would, at the same time, ask whether Her Majesty's Government assented to doctrines which were stated as facts in that document. The memorial, after setting forth certain alleged cases of persecution, went on to say that in the instance of another individual, a man much respected, he had been punished "solely for being a Christian, and for quitting the Church of Rome." Now, any person reading these words would perceive that they would be interpreted by Roman Catholics as implying that, in the opinion of the memorialists, a Roman Catholic was not a Christian, and that the words were calculated to give offence to a proud and high-spirited people such as those of Spain. He understood that his noble Friend was inclined to give another interpretation to these words. If so, and if the memorialists did not intend to convey the meaning which he (the Marquess of Normanby) had cited, he could only express his regret that they should have expressed themselves in such a manner as to be liable to misconstruction, and that they should, as they too often did, use language which was calculated to defeat rather than promote the objects which they had in view. Had the memorialists stated that the individual's 270 sole offence was quitting the Church of Rome, he could understand that that might not be objectionable; but to say that he was punished "for being a Christian, and for quitting the Church of Rome," seemed to lead to the inevitable conclusion that the memorialists were of opinion that members of the Church of Rome were not Christians. As the words stood their plain meaning was that the man had being punished for being a Christian, and the intervention of the Foreign Secretary was asked for on this ground. Then the memorialists went on to express their fear lest persecution should extend to other towns, and they said that many Christians in Malaga were much alarmed. The phrase "many Christians in Malaga" seemed to point to the time when there were Moors as well as Christians there, else the conclusion to be drawn from the whole memorial was, that the members of the Romish Church were not Christians. Such a construction had been put upon these words, and he was sure that if this memorial were put into the hands of our Minister at Madrid, and it were shown to the Spanish Government, they would regard it as insulting. An injudicious use of expressions such as these was not likely to advance the objects which the society had in view, and abroad was calculated to produce a most unfavourable impression. The noble Marquess then moved an Address for Copy of Memorial from the Protestant Alliance Society presented to Lord John Russell on the subject of Alleged Religious Persecutions in Spain.

LORD WODEHOUSE
said, he had no objection to produce a copy of the memorial; but really he was at a loss to know how the intentions of the memorialists could be misapprehended. What led to their adoption of this particular form of words he could not, of course, say; but, no doubt, they meant that the person who had been imprisoned wa3 a good Christian, and was only punished because he had embraced Protestant principles. At all events, I the Foreign Secretary was not to be held responsible for particular expressions contained in any such document. He would leave the interpretation to the noble Earl I (the Earl of Shaftesbury) who had signed I it, and who was present.

§ THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY
said, that as his name was appended to the memorial he might, perhaps, be permitted to I make one or two remarks. He could assure the noble Marquess that it was not 271 the intention of himself or of any of the memorialists to convey the notion that Roman Catholics were not Christians. By the laws of Spain no religion was tolerated but the Roman Catholic; and what the memorialists meant to convey was this, that although a person left the Church of Rome, he did not by any means lose his Christian character. If this were so, the man was persecuted for being a Christian who had left the Church of Rome. He thought the grievance of the noble Marquess—if it were one—was not worth occupying their Lordships' time.

THE MABQUESS OF NORMANBY
remarked that, if the memorialists had meant what the noble Earl now stated, it was a pity that they did not express themselves more clearly. He could not see the use of some of the words employed unless they had a meaning. They said that a man was punished "for being a Christian, and quitting the Church of Rome." If they meant merely to state that the man was punished "for quitting the Church of Rome," why did they not state so simply? Did not, he asked, the words "for being a Christian" mean something? He was satisfied when his noble Friend declared that it was not the intention of the memorialists to assert that the Church of Rome was not Christian; but he regretted that they had thought it proper to use words which, he was quite sure, would he interpreted by many as he himself had understood them. Supposing the Foreign Minister here was about to act upon the representations made to him, it was surely as well that he, too, should see that the memorial was not worded in an offensive manner to the Foreign Government whose conduct as to their own subjects was called in question.