Lords Sitting of 12 April 1861

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—2a Mutiny; Marine Mutiny; Exchequer Bills; Consolidated Fund (£3,000,000).

SYRIA—THE DRUSE PRISONERS AT BEYROUT.—QUESTION.
THE EARL OF CARNARVON, in rising to inquire of Her Majesty's Government the Decision of the Turkish Government in regard to the Druse Chiefs now prisoners in Beyrout, said, he had no wish to enter into the larger question as to the occupation of Syria by French troops, but would confine himself as closely as possible to the subject matter of his inquiry. It would be in the recollection of their Lordships that shortly after the outbreak in the Lebanon and the massacres at Damascus, Fuad Pacha was despatched by the Turkish Government to restore order and to institute a judicial inquiry into the unfortunate transactions that had taken place in Syria. After he had investigated the circumstances attending the recent massacres at Damascus he summoned the Druse chiefs to appear before him, in order that they should answer for their share in these events. At that time the Druses had retired to the Haouran, a mountain district East of the Jordan, which was a kind of natural fortress, and position impregnable and almost unassailable by the Turks. They felt some hesitation in coming down from their stronghold and appearing before the Turkish authorities. However, on assurances given them by the Turkish authorities they left their fastnesses and surrendered themselves. Some negotiations took place between them and the British authorities in Syria, but he was far from saying that the British authorities gave them any direct encouragement to place themselves in the power of the Turkish authorities. There was, however, no doubt as to the fact that, to a certain extent, inducements were held out to the Druse chiefs to give themselves up on the assumption of their innocence, in which they were invited to confide. They were led to suppose that it would be well for them not to stay away, or to allow judgment to go by default. Having come down to Beyrout a trial ensued, the result of which was now known. The noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, speaking in "another place," had described the trials that took place as grossly unjust; and that expression did not fall short of the reality of the case. The trial of Said Bey at Beyrout was unjust from beginning to end. This man was a principal chieftain of the Druses, and one whom the Turkish Government had for years past endeavoured

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to win over to themselves by honours and distinctions, and all that political bribery that is so common in the East. Against Said Bey the whole force of the attack by the Turkish authorities was directed. Unfamiliar with legal proceedings he was allowed no counsel to advise him or to plead for him; ignorant of the Turkish language he had no interpreter to translate the evidence or his own replies to the Court. There was indeed an interpreter attached to the Court, but he acted with the grossest partiality, and instead of rendering word for word what the prisoner said, he so perverted the sense as to give an entirely different impression of the meaning of the prisoner's language. Whenever any evidence came out that was favourable to the prisoner, it was immediately suppressed or distorted: on the other hand, whenever any evidence came out unfavourable to the Turkish Government—showing their complicity in what had taken place, or their instigation of the acts committed—it was kept back. To sum up the whole in a few words, during the entire course of the trial Said Bey was surrounded by hostile witnesses; notwithstanding which there was not one jot or tittle of evidence brought out that could fairly criminate the prisoner, or which in England would be considered sufficient to convict a man of the smallest offence. On the contrary, it did come out by ample evidence, in spite of an unfavourable Court and unscrupulous witnesses that Said Bey and his sister had on more than one occasion saved the lives of Christians. Without reason or authority the Judges, however, found the prisoner guilty, and adjudged him to death. His noble Friend Lord Dufferin, the British Commissioner in Syria, who had displayed energy, and ability, and a conscientious impartiality in the discharge of his duties, strongly protested against so monstrous and iniquitous a sentence; and in that protest he (the Earl of Carnarvon) believed he was supported by Her Majesty's Government at home. The protest was forwarded to the Turkish Government. But weeks were allowed to go by, during which time the accused was confined in the closest confinement, and cut off from all communication with his friends. He was denied almost the necessaries of life, and it was even whispered in Beyrout that he was subjected to even worse ill-treatment. At last, as he (the Earl of Carnarvon) understood from a telegram in the newspapers, the Porte consented to a remission of his sen-
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tence. And the questions which he now wished to put to the noble Lord the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs were—First, was he to understand that the sentence had been totally remitted; and, in the next place, if that were so, whether Said Bey would be restored to his former position and his property given back to him? He (the Earl of Carnarvon) believed that a large portion of the property of Said Bey had been confiscated, the very toys of his children put up to auction, his wife and children had been forced to live for days together without shelter or comfort in the wildest parts of the mountain, and that prior to his trial part of his personal property had been sold, unless he had been grossly misinformed, to—their Lordships would scarcely believe to whom—to the very Judges who were appointed to try him, and who were sworn to execute justice. Now, if ever there was an instance of an attempt at judicial murder this was one. As it was the case with Said Bey, so was it also the case with the other Druse prisoners. The number of heads demanded by the Maronite Christians was upwards of 4,000. Upon a remonstrance being made against this wholesale execution, they consented to limit their demand to 1,200. That number had subsequently dwindled down to six or eight men. He hoped that the Government would be able to tell their Lordships that the same tardy justice which had been dealt out to Said Bey would be also extended to his companions in misfortune. He was aware that a pressure, to ensure the execution of these innocent men would make itself felt in various quarters—a pressure arising from Maronite revenge, from Turkish cupidity of rule, and from a supposed policy of France. No Druse could approach the walls of Beyrout unprotected, without imminent danger to his life, and Maronite revenge, though unsatisfied, had had sufficient victims. As far as Turkey was concerned, it was very well known that for generations past the Government of that country entertained a bitter hatred of the practical independence of the Druses; and now, for the first time, by a fortuitous combination of circumstances, by a concurrence of fraud and intrigue on their own part and by the intervention of other Powers on the other hand, the Turks were placed in the ascendant and the Druses were struck down. It was true that the course they were now ready to adopt was very dif-

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ferent from that they were willing to follow last year. Wholesale reprisals were no longer asked for, but those in whose hands power was vested were very willing to sacrifice six or eight of the principal leaders, by which means they would break the strength of the race and render them more subservient to their own political purposes. But here he thought that Her Majesty's Government had a right to interfere, for by the presence of the British Commissioner in Syria we had to a certain extent countenanced and sanctioned the proceedings going on, and we were, therefore, bound to see, if not that justice was carried out, yet that injustice like that which seemed to be in contemplation was not consummated. Bound as the French Government was by long existing political ties to the Maronites he could very well understand that they experienced some difficulty in acting in this matter; but at the same time it could hardly be supposed that they were disposed to become in cold blood the executioners of Maronite vengeance—indeed, the only retribution that had fallen on the Maronites in consequence of their excesses—and those excesses had gone far beyond anything that the Druses had ever committed—was the punishment inflicted by the French, General. He could not, therefore, but believe that if this matter were fairly, calmly, and dispassionately brought forward an appeal to justice and right feeling would not be made in vain. The present position of affairs in Syria was such as to awaken grave apprehension; but he would not now enter upon that question, because the noble Lord had promised that papers should be laid before them on the subject, and until their Lordships had had an opportunity of reading and considering those papers he felt that it would be premature to express any opinion upon the matter; but he could not help saying that if this question—which though a minor one, was still important, because English honour and good faith were involved in it—were settled in the first instance, it would remove one not inconsiderable difficulty from the tangled mass of confusion and disorder which Governments and diplomatists would soon be called on to unravel in Syria.
LORD WODEHOUSEsaid, he should have been glad if the noble Earl had postponed his Motion until the papers were in their Lordships' possession—especially as they would be distributed to-morrow morn-
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ing. Because, although the noble Earl had kept his promise not to enter into the general question of Syrian affairs, the subject was so intimately connected with the treatment of the Druse chiefs that it was difficult to separate them, and it was still more difficult properly to understand them without the papers in which the circumstances were set out at length. It was necessary, in the first instance, to bear in mind that the Druse prisoners were in two distinct categories—those who were arrested in the mountains, of whom a considerable number were in the custody of the Turkish Government, at a place called Mokhara, and the eleven chiefs who surrendered themselves at Beyrout, and were now lying under sentence of death. Of those who were tried at Mokhara, Fuad Pasha determined that eight should suffer capital punishment; but strong recommendations had been made by Her Majesty's Government that not more than one or two should actually be put to death, and in this recommendation the French Government concurred. Regarding the eleven chiefs, however, confined at Beyrout, in which number Said Bey was included, great discussions had arisen among the Commissioners, and it was desirable that the House should be acquainted with the views which the Commissioners individually entertained. The French and Prussian Commissioners were of opinion that all the Druse chiefs, with two exceptions, ought to be executed; the Russian Commissioner thought that five ought to be put to death; while the Austrian Commissioner, and his noble Friend Lord Dufferin, were of opinion that only two had been proved guilty, and were deserving of death. Owing to this division of opinion it was agreed that the matter should be referred to Constantinople for the decision of the Porte. That decision had not yet been made known; but the noble Earl was rightly informed in stating that Her Majesty's Government had urged in the strongest manner that Said Bey should not be put to death; and with regard to the other Druses, he could only state that Her Majesty's Government were most anxious that the Porte should exercise a large measure of clemency, and though it was necessary that some of the ringleaders should suffer, they desired that the number should be as limited as possible. But as the noble Earl had spoken so warmly in favour of the Druses, and though he admitted that in their past his-

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tory there was a great deal to excite admiration, and to claim the sympathy of the English nation, he must beg the House not entirely to forget that last year the whole of Europe was excited by the reports of massacres of the most horrible description, undoubtedly perpetrated by the Druses. Great provocation had undoubtedly been given to them, and the outbreak consequently resembled a civil war more than anything else; yet it was only reasonable that some punishment should be inflicted by the Turkish Government to show that it was not indifferent to the conduct of the Druses, and to prevent a repetition of such excesses in future.
THE EARL OF CARNARVONsaid, the noble Lord had omitted to state whether there was any likelihood of a commutation of the sentences.
LORD WODEHOUSEsaid, he could not tell; he could only say that Her Majesty's Government had recommended that the sentences should not be carried out; but whether the Porte had decided that there should be any commutation of sentence to lesser punishments he could not say.
THE EARL OF DERBYsaid, he understood the noble Lord to state that there was a difference of opinion among the Commissioners about the number of chiefs to be executed—one recommending that all but two should be executed; another, five; and the Austrian and the British Commissioner recommending that only two out of the eleven should be put to death. He wished to know whether Said Bey was one of these whose execution was desired by the Government who wished five out of the eleven chiefs to be executed?
LORD WODEHOUSEsaid, the French, Russian, and Prussian Commissioners had all pressed that this chief should be executed. Their reasons would be found set out at length in the papers.
House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter before Five o'clock.