Lords Sitting of 27 March 1860

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2a Consolidated Fund (£850,000).
3a Mutiny; Marine Mutiny.

SPAIN AND MOROCCO—QUESTION.
THE EARL OF CARNARVONsaid, he wished to put a Question to the Govern-

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ment with respect to the existing relations between the Spanish Government and the Government of Morocco. He understood from a telegram which had appeared in the morning papers that conditions of peace had been signed. When, a short time since, he asked his noble Friend (Lord Wodehouse) a question upon the subject their Lordships were told that overtures of peace had been made by the Spanish Government. The conditions were understood to be an indemnity for the expenses of the war, that a Roman Catholic bishop should be allowed to reside in the interior, certain commercial stipulations in favour of the trade of Spain, and a cession of Moorish territory over and above what had been conquered by the Spanish arms, and including a part of the coast of the Atlantic opposite the Canary Islands. He was anxious to know whether Her Majesty's Government were yet in possession of any official information with regard to the terms that had been agreed to between the belligerents; whether those terms were substantially the same as had been offered by Marshal O'Donnell; or whether they had suffered any abatement. On a former occasion when the matter was discussed he did not press for the production of any papers, because the state of things was such as might have rendered it inconvenient and detrimental to the public service to have produced them; but he hoped the Government were now in a position to furnish at least some portion of the correspondence. It might be impossible for them to lay the whole upon the table; still it ought to be in their power to communicate that part of it which would show what was the actual position in which the question now stood, the attitude of the parties who had been engaged in the war, the extent and character of the claims which had been made by the Spanish Government, and the concessions promised or made by the Moorish Government. The production of the correspondence was not simply desirable in the interests of Great Britain, but it was equally so for the Government of Spain. Already some of the despatches had been published which had passed between the Moorish and Spanish Governments with respect to the origin of the war; and he was free to say that if those papers contained the true version of the transaction, and represented the whole case of the Spanish Government, it certainly did not appear to be consistent with that spirit of fairness and justice for which
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he was always willing to give that Government credit. Rut in one of those despatches from the Moorish Minister to the English Consul General at Tangier there was this very remarkable statement. The Moroccan Minister said that the Moorish people and Government were at this moment suffering severely owing to their deference to the wishes and desires of the English Government which had been conveyed through the Consul General to them. Now, he thought that for the sake of the dignity and honour of this country it would be only fair that the House should be informed what were the wishes and desires which Her Majesty's Government had thus conveyed to the Moorish Government. He wished to imply no doubt that they were satisfactory; nevertheless it was important that Parliament should learn what they really were. He could not altogether forget the relations which subsisted between Spain and other countries. He could not forget the recent bombardment of Tangier by the French fleet. He could not forget the whispers which had, as it was well known, circulated in Northern Africa with regard to French co-operation and French intentions in that quarter of the world. And, lastly, he could not put out of sight all recollection of the very remarkable map for the redistribution of Europe in the year 1860, which was published in Paris about two years ago, and in which, amongst other territorial changes, it was proposed that Morocco should be annexed to Spain. All these considerations made it a matter of deep importance that Parliament should have ample information upon the subject. He believed that the commerce of this country with Morocco was a growing commerce, and that in the ordinary course of things it was capable of still further development and extension. But if Spain succeeded in acquiring possession of the northern coast, if the whole extent of territory from Tetuan to Tangier were ceded to Spain, and if she made further acquisitions upon the Atlantic side, from that moment, whether for good or for evil, the empire of Morocco would cease to exist as an independent State, and at once pass under the control and influence of another Power. So far as our own interests were concerned, especially in reference to Gibraltar, they were too apparent t to need dwelling upon for one moment. Hitherto we had drawn all our supplies for the garrison at Gibraltar

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without stint and without difficulty from the Moorish coast. It would remain to be seen, in the event of that coast passing into the hands of a foreign Power, how far we should be able to retain the advantage we now possessed. He should be glad to hear from his noble Friend, first whether the telegram to which he had alluded was correct; and next, whether he was prepared to lay any portion of the Correspondence on the subject of Spain and Morocco upon the table?
LORD WODEHOUSEstated, in reply to the first Question of the noble Earl, that the Government had received information similar to that which was contained in the telegram, to the effect that preliminaries of peace had been signed between the Moors and Spaniards; but, not having received, in a precise form, what were the terms of the peace, he was unable to state exactly what they were. Information had also reached the Government that the forward march of the Spanish forces had been interrupted, and that the army had returned to Tetuan. With regard to the Correspondence which had been conducted by the British Government, seeing that the preliminaries only had been signed, that peace was not yet concluded, and that negotiations must still necessarily be proceeding, he could not undertake, in the interests of the public, to produce any portion of it at that moment.

INDIA.—BANKS AND CURRENCY.

  PAPERS MOVED FOR.
  LORD MONTEAGLE, in moving for certain papers connected with Indian Currency, warned the Government that, in establishing banks of this nature, they should take care to effect a responsible—a directly responsible—management. Remote responsibility in such matters amounted to no responsibility at all. He viewed with great apprehension any attempt to substitute for private credit the authority of the State. All experience showed that, to place in the hands of a Government the power of tampering with the circulation, was a course fraught with danger; which must be immeasurably increased, when the weapon was placed in the hands of a Government with almost uncontrolled influence, and at such a distance from the supreme authority as to be practically irresponsible. To confer on the Sovereign power the privilege of issuing promissory notes payable on de-
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  mand, was a course pregnant with evil, and which must lead to complications dangerous to the security of commercial enterprise, and to the authority of the Crown itself; while to disturb the system of private credit by the establishment of State Banks with the trumpery object of saving a small sum annually, was to sacrifice the greater object to the less. It was by the due use of credit, that the real development of commercial transactions was promoted; and nothing had a greater influence upon a sound system of trade than a sound system of banking. The noble Lord concluded by moving for Copies of all Correspondence between the Secretary of State for India and the Government of India, touching the Establishment of Government Banks; and for a List of all the Banks now existing in India.
  THE DUKE OF ARGYLLsaid, he had just laid upon the table the Correspondence referred to by his noble Friend. His noble Friend said, he had not wished to enter into the question; but he had, nevertheless, indicated a very distinct opinion as to the issue of a paper currency. He would not attempt to anticipate a discussion until their Lordships were in possession of all the documents. The question was of great importance; it was surrounded with difficulty—and whatever course was taken, it would be necessary for Parliament and the Legislature of India to take sufficient precaution against the possibility of abuse. He was sorry that neither Lord Grey nor Lord Overstone was in the House; for both those noble Lords in 1857 laid down doctrines upon the subject of banking, the very converse of those which his noble Friend had to-night enunciated. Both those noble Lords distinctly held and laid down that it was the especial duty of Government to issue paper-money, and that that great power should be withdrawn from the hands of all private corporations. Without entering into the dark and almost inscrutable subject of Currency, he believed it was as much the duty of Government to undertake the issue of paper-money, as it was to regulate the coinage. For many years high authorities had recommended that a paper-issue for the Indian Empire should be adopted; and under sufficient restraints, and with proper securities, he was of opinion that the measure proposed by the Indian Government would confer a great benefit upon that county, and would effect a considerable saving in

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  its finances. At the same time he was by no means to be understood as advocating, either for India or for the home countries, a withdrawal of the power of issuing paper money at present exercised with advantage by private corporations.
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH, without presuming to discuss the question till he had read the papers which had been produced, was of opinion, from the nature of Indian transactions, that no very extensive issue of paper-money would probably be required. If the Government sought to make payments in that manner to persons other than those who might wish to avail themselves of the facilities which paper money afforded, very serious consequences must be expected to ensue. He wished to inquire whether the noble Duke had yet received, in any official shape, the statement of Mr. Wilson, the Financial Secretary for India, on which he was exceedingly anxious to offer some observations.
  THE DUKE OF ARGYLLreplied, that he had only received a copy of the speech that morning, and had not yet bad an opportunity of consulting his right hon. Friend, the Secretary for India.
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half-past Ten o'clock.