COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 22 March 1860)

THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE
said, the Bill had passed its preceding stages without a dissentient voice. It was in substance the same as the Bill of last year, and, therefore, did not require any lengthened explanation. In fact, it only carried out a little further a measure that had been of undoubted benefit to Ireland. It was a constant ground for reproach against Irish landlords that the dwellings of the labouring classes on their estates were of a very unseemly and comfortless kind, and it was agreed by all parties acquainted with the case that the improvement of the dwellings was the first step towards raising the condition of the labouring classes. The main object, therefore, of the measure was to afford facilities for improving the dwellings of the peasantry. He thought, wherever loans of public money had been granted for the improvement of land, the money had been expended beneficially; and he thought the principle might be safely and advantageously applied to the purposes contemplated by the Bill.

THE MARQUESS OF BATH
said, that Parliament, whether right or wrong, had decided on enabling the owners of settled estates to improve them by borrowing money, and he and the noble Marquess near him were prepared to found their objections to the Bill on the ground that the improvements effected were not bonâ fide improvements. The noble Marquess (the Marquess of Clanricarde) was not correct when he said that the Bill passed last year without opposition. Considerable conversation took place upon the subject last year, and the noble Lord the Chairman of Committees moved certain Amendments which were carried, and he now proposed some Amendments in the present Bill, and they were important as putting a check to the evils likely to arise.

§ LORD REDESDALE
reminded the House that the Bill underwent discussion last year, and that it involved principles which required watching. He trusted, however, their Lordships would pass the Bill through Committee without discussion, in order that the discussion might betaken upon the Report.

§ THE DUKE OF NEWCASTLE
said, he approved of the Amendments which had been introduced by their Lordships into the Bill last year; but the House of Commons, thinking this an infringement of 1019 their privileges, had rejected the Bill so amended. He should be sorry to see the same result this year. He had had a communication from Sir Richard Griffiths, the Chairman of the Board of Public Works, who suggested that at the present little control could be exercised by the Board over the application of the grants. With the view of some better arrangement being made, he would suggest that the Bill should be allowed to pass through Committee, and that the third reading should be deferred till after Easter.

VISCOUNT DUNGANNON
said, he was favourable to the object of the Bill. He thought the House was much indebted to the noble Marquess for the introduction of a measure which he (Viscount Dungannon), speaking as an Irish landlord, thought would prove highly advantageous to the labouring poor in Ireland. As a class, these were very difficult to be dealt with, and frequently did not sufficiently appreciate the good intended for them; but he trusted that the Bill would be passed, and was certain that it would produce great improvement.

THE MARQUESS OF WESTMEATH
said, he understood the Commissioners had no means of fulfilling a duty proposed to be cast on them—that in the erection of labourers' houses the premises were to be examined by a competent person, who should report that the outlay would effect an improvement to the utmost annual value of the sum to be charged. One of the proposed Amendments would, he thought, remedy this defect.

§ LORD REDESDALE
said, his only object was to have the Bill as perfect as possible, and in order thereto to understand entirely what the views of the Commissioners in Ireland were. Of course, no more dwellings than were necessary for the proper culture of the estate should be erected on it; but the Commissioners said that they had no means of ascertaining what the condition of the estate was so as to determine what the number of houses should be. It was desirable that, if any clause was proposed to be introduced into the Bill, there should be time afforded for considering it. He suggested that it would not be desirable to have the discussion on the third reading, for such a course would not afford opportunity for further Amendment. He thought the best course would be not to take the Committee to-day, but that the Motion 1020 should be withdrawn, and the Bill should stand for Commitment this day week.

§ THE MARQUESS OF LONDONDERRY
was understood to express approval of the principle of the measure.

THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE
said, he bad no objection to the suggestion which had been made, and he would, therefore, consent to postpone the Committee, though he thought that it would have been desirable if they could have got into Committee before Easter.