HL Deb 26 July 1860 vol 160 cc184-8
EARL FORTESCUE

said, he was sure he need make no preliminary statement to ensure their Lordships' favourable consideration to anything that concerned the great Volunteer defensive force which the free spirit of the country had within the last twelve months raised throughout the length and breadth of the land, and that as little was necessary to obtain the consideration of his noble Friend the Under Secretary of State for War (Earl de Grey and Ripon), upon whom devolved the official labour of regulating and organizing that force, and who had won golden opinions by his courtesy, ability, and zeal. The Government had directed the formation of the Volunteers into battalions, and with the view of establishing an uniform system of drill, had appointed adjutants with pay and allowances of 10s. per day. Now this he believed to be a very fair remuneration for the adjutants of town corps; but in the rural districts, where the corps were separated by long intervals, and the adjutant had to travel over considerable distances, the use of a horse, and a very good horse too, was absolutely necessary. He trusted therefore that the Government would consent to increase the pay of those officers in the rural districts. He believed also that the appointment of a permanent sergeant to each company would add greatly to the efficiency of the force. These sergeants might be employed as armourers, to take care of the weapons of the Volunteers. The only objection that could be made to granting this boon would be the expense which it involved; but he was informed by one on whose calculations he could rely that the whole increased pay to adjutants and of a permanent sergeant to each company would come to little more than £1 per head annually for the whole force of Volunteers, or a total sum annually of £120,000 to £130,000. The advantages, however, which would be gained would, he was persuaded, afford an ample compensation for such an outlay: which would, in addition, secure the better observance of the regulations for preserving the arms. He begged, therefore, to ask a question of the Under Secretary for War respecting the Pay and Allowances to Adjutants of Administrative Battalions of Rifle Volunteers in rural Districts: also respecting the Grant of a permanent Sergeant to be paid by the Government for each Company of Volunteers?

EARL DE GREY AND RIPON

assured their Lordships that Her Majesty's Government took the most anxious interest in the volunteer movement, and were deeply grateful to those whose patriotism and public spirit had led them to come forward, in numbers already amounting to upwards of 130,000, for the purpose of forming an auxiliary force for the defence of the country, which, he had no doubt, would be found, if put to the trial, of the highest value. He must also express his personal thanks to the noble Earl for the handsome, although undeserved manner, in which he had spoken of his services. It was, no doubt, perfectly true that the adjutants of battalions in rural districts, where companies were scattered at considerable distances from each other, incurred much heavier travelling expenses than the adjutants of town battalions, which lay closer together. His right hon. Friend the Secretary for War had already had his attention drawn to the subject, and the propriety of giving increased allowances to adjutants in rural districts was now under consideration. The proposal seemed to him to be a fair one, and he believed it would meet with the favourable consideration of the authorities. He was afraid he could not give an equally satisfactory answer to the second question of the noble Earl. The appointment of a permanent sergeant to each battalion would, as the noble Earl himself admitted, entail an annual expenditure of £130,000. This was not a small item; and, looking to the large amount of our military expenses at the present time, he was afraid he could not hold out any hope that the Government were likely to accede to that request, at least to the largo extent proposed by the noble Earl. It must be borne in mind that the adjutants, who were to superintend the drill of the corps, had only recently been appointed; and it would therefore be premature to appoint permanent drill sergeants till they had had an opportunity of seeing how the adjutant system was working, and the results which it produced. If they were to appoint discharged soldiers as sergeants to the Volunteer corps, they had no power to retain them under martial law, and a man might he a very good soldier when under the strict discipline of the army who might turn out very differently when the only restraint upon him was the occasional supervision of the adjutant. There was, however, one class of Volunteers in whose favour an exception might very fairly be made. Their Lordships were aware that the Artillery Corps were provided with instructors; and his right hon. Friend the Secretary for War also proposed to allow a drill sergeant to I each company of mounted Volunteers, who, on account of their limited numbers, were not entitled to an adjutant. The noble Earl gave as a reason for the appointment of permanent sergeants that the regulations as to the custody of the arms would then be better observed. It should be remembered that one of the preliminary conditions upon which the services of the Volunteers were accepted by the Crown was, that each regiment should have a storehouse and keeper of arms for the arms supplied to them. If it were brought to the knowledge of the Government that the regulation of the War Office on that point had not been followed, steps would, of course, be taken to enforce so necessary a provision; and, as they now had inspectors who would visit the corps from time to time, and adjutants who would be constantly looking after them, any irregularity would be quickly detected. He had no doubt, however, that the good feeling of the Volunteers would induce them to adhere to a regulation which they themselves had undertaken to obey when their services were accepted by Her Majesty. In conclusion, he need hardly say that while the Government were desirous of giving every reasonable support to the movement, it was necessary that the force should retain its Volunteer character, and one of the first conditions of its existence was that it should entail no heavy charge upon the public Exchequer.

LORD VIVIAN

thought the Government were bound to take care that the Volunteer force did not fall off from the want of that pecuniary assistance which in certain cases he believed was indispensable. Whatever might be the good will of the men, a large portion of the force would be lost if the Government refused aid in circumstances where it was required. There were nowhere, for instance, men more loyal, or more willing to give their personal services to their country, than in his own county—Cornwall; but they were not of a class that could afford to provide themselves with clothing, ammunition, targets, drill-sergeants, and so on. The Government and the country were now alive to the reality and excellence of the movement; and he held that the time had arrived when they ought to do something more for the Volunteers than heretofore. He recommended that the force should he divided into two classes. The Volunteers in the large towns were fully able to pay their own expenses without any assistance from the Government, and should constitute one class, who should not be tied down to any particular period of service, and who should provide themselves with all that they required, except arms. The second class should consist of Volunteers in the rural districts, who should be bound to serve for a couple of years or so, and should be provided by the Government with drill-sergeants, arms, ammunition, targets, and clothing. In his own county—Cornwall, the Volunteer Force, amounting to about 2,000 or 3,000 men, was entirely maintained by private subscriptions; but he thought that if there were a classification, such as he had suggested, the second class to receive Government assistance, the number would be greatly increased, and the force itself rendered more permanent. He hoped before long the recommendations of his noble Friend would be acted on.

THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH

concurred much in the apprehension of the noble Baron that they would not be able to maintain by voluntary subscriptions from year to year the whole of the Volunteer Force we now possessed, still less the larger force which it was most desirable should he maintained. Every one who had read the Report on the subject of the National Defences must see the absolute necessity of keeping up this force, inasmuch as, to a very considerable extent, the country must rely on them for the service of the fortifications hereafter to be erected. But he had a little difficulty in going to the Government directly on this subject, and what occurred to him was this—it might be desirable that an Act should pass enabling magistrates at Quarter Sessions to levy a small rate for the purpose of meeting the contingent expenses of adjutants and various other items, which it was almost contrary to reason to expect pecuniary means could be found to satisfy by annual subscriptions. Of course, any Bill to that effect would most strictly limit the purposes to which the rate should be applied, and he believed one halfpenny in the pound would be perfectly sufficient. If that were done, he believed they would be able, not only to give permanence to the force, but extend it.

VISCOUNT HARDINGE

said, that the companies were so widely scattered, and the adjutants had to travel so far, that it would be only fair to give them some assistance in the shape of additional allowance. He thought that the efficiency of the individual companies would very much depend on their having a good sergeant of the Line permanently for drill. In times of excitement people were ready with their subscriptions, but when excitement abated these contributions fell off; he therefore thought it was well worth the consideration of the Government whether it would not be advisable that there should be a permanent sergeant allowed for every company.

VISCOUNT MELVILLE

said, that the sergeants of the Line were not more than sufficient for the services of the Line regiments, and indeed a commanding officer had complained to him of the great inconvenience his regiment was subjected to in consequence of the withdrawal of the drill sergeants for the services of the Volunteer corps. The system was most injurious to the discipline of the army, and he hoped the suggestion of the noble Earl would be adopted. But he thought it would be still bettor that the Government should encourage the formation of these companies into militia regiments.

VISCOUNT HARDINGE

explained that, in speaking of sergeants of the Line, he had referred to discharged soldiers of good character after ten years' service, and pensioners. He did not mean that the sergeants should be taken away from the Line.

EARL GRANVILLE

had great hopes that the noble spirit which had been exhibited in the Volunteer movement during the last year would not flag; and, if that spirit continued, he did not believe the subscriptions in money would fail. It would, however, take away the whole character of the force if they came to Parliament, year by year, for a large sum to maintain it. On the other hand, he could hardly conceive any proposal more likely to unpopularize the movement than raising a rate for its support; and he therefore thought the most prudent course would be for the Government to confine themselves to the arrangement which had been shadowed out by his noble Friend (Earl de Grey and Ripon).