Lords Sitting of 5 July 1860

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2a Tramways (Scotland); Ionian Islands (Marriages).
3a Endowed Charities; Inland Bonding.

ITALY—GENERAL GARIBALDI.

  QUESTION.
  THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBYsaid, he wished to ask his noble Friend the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs a question of which he had given him notice. There had appeared in the official Gazette of Palermo the appointment of the Due di San Giuseppe as the representative of Sicily in England. Now, it was obvious that the representative of Sicily at this moment could only be the representative of General Garibaldi. He could not conceive that our Government, being in amicable relations with that of the King of the Two Sicilies, could receive a diplomatic agent from a foreign adventurer who, by force of arms, and the aid of

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  other adventurers, had taken possession of a portion of that Sovereign's dominions. Without entering on a discussion of the general question, he begged to ask his noble Friend, Whether Her Majesty's Government were informed of the appointment of the Envoy in question before it was announced in the official journal, and if so, whether they had intimated their willingness to receive him? His noble Friend must, of course, be aware that it was usual even for the most regular Government, before appointing a representative to any Court, to consult that Court as to whether the person they had in view would be acceptable.
  LORD WODEHOUSEstated, that the Government had seen the announcement in the newspapers to which the noble Marquess referred, but had received no other intimation on the subject. He might take that opportunity of saying, in reference to a question which the noble Marquess had asked on a previous occasion, that there was no foundation for the report of Mr. Elliot's interference in regard to the vessels which were seized by the Neapolitan cruisers. Mr. Elliot did not interfere in any way whatever. His noble Friend would, however, not be astonished to learn that, without such interference, the vessels and men had been given up by the Neapolitan Government.
  LORD BROUGHAMwould draw no comparison of General Garibaldi with certain potentates, or say anything of adventurers who had gained their possessions by force of arms, as that might be thought invidious; but this he could not help saying, that he believed 999 out of every 1,000 persons in England heartily wished him success.
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHapprehended that the last official communication from the Neapolitan Government must have been the despatch of General Lanza, announcing the complete defeat of Garibaldi. As to any person coming over here to represent Garibaldi, he could only say it would be difficult to find a more truly dignified or worthy person in Europe to represent.
  THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBYsaid, he thought it would be worth the while of his noble and learned Friend (Lord Brougham) to read the reports which had appeared in the newspapers of Paris, Lyons, and Marseilles, of the transactions which had occurred in Sicily, since the evacuation by the Neapolitan army. The
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  accusations therein made against General Garibaldi and his followers showed that there had been assassinations not by tens, but by hundreds. Not only had those who were supposed to be agents of the police been murdered, but women had also been assaulted and put to death. In one case it was said a woman had been burnt. Now, he gave much more credit to those statements than to the accusations against the Neapolitan Government. He believed, however, that both were very much exaggerated. His noble and learned Friend had formerly pronounced opinions on the side of order and against the revolutionary spirit then afloat, and as those opinions had been published they would remain more permanent than anything he might say in the course of this conversation.
  LORD BROUGHAM: I am very much obliged to my noble Friend for volunteering an advertisement, without any payment by Mr. Ridgway. On the part of Mr. Ridgway I thank my noble Friend, as probably he has saved Mr. Ridgway five shillings. But I do not value to the extent of that sum all the information to which my noble Friend refers, and which I have read in the foreign papers. I mean to put a still smaller value on it. I do not value it so much as I do my noble Friend's own private correspondence from Florence and Naples. With respect to my opinions on revolutions, whether delivered in this House or published elsewhere, I maintain every tittle of those opinions.
  LORD WODEHOUSEdeemed it only just to General Garibaldi to say that the official accounts received from officers of Her Majesty's navy and from our agents abroad stated that the General had behaved with the utmost generosity and humanity, and that he had taken every possible means to prevent such excesses as were too generally incidental to a state of revolution.
  House adjourned at a quarter past Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half-past Ten o'clock.