§ LORD EBURYsaid, he wished to make a statement with respect to a matter which was discussed by their Lordships on Monday last. On that evening he moved for the Return of a copy of the Memorial presented to the Archbishop of Canterbury in the year 1851, from certain clergymen of the English Church, praying for alterations in the burial service, and for his Grace's reply thereto. He was told in answer by his noble and learned Friend on the Woolsack that it was not within the competence of their Lordships' House to order such a Return, the Memorial in question being a private document. He (Lord Ebury) then stated that he believed there were precedents for the Motion he had made, but could not at the moment remember them, and consented to withdraw his Motion. He was better acquainted with the pro- 1104 ceedings of the other House of Parliament than with those of their Lordships, and he found that there the precedents were altogether in his favour. In 1854, for example, Mr. Heywood moved for an Address to the Crown for a copy of the alterations in the Book of Common Prayer, proposed by the Commissioners appointed in 1789, which was in the hands of the Archbishop of Canterbury, On that occasion the Motion was resisted by Mr. Goulburn; but the House of Commons overruled the objections, and the Return asked for by Mr. Heywood was ordered by the House. Again, so recently as yesterday, a Motion was made in the other House for a copy of the correspondence which had taken place between the Bishop of London and the rector of St. George's-in-the-East, and though an objection was taken to the Motion, it was nevertheless agreed to by the House. According to the precedents in "another place," therefore, he was perfectly justified in making the Motion he did. His object was to make the paper for which he moved the foundation of a Motion before their Lordships, and he still thought it was competent for them to order the production of the paper.
THE LORD CHANCELLORhad no doubt that his noble Friend was animated by the most laudable intentions in the Motion he made the other night, and that he believed he was following a regular course in doing so. He (the Lord Chancellor) had, nevertheless, felt it to be his duty to draw their Lordships' attention to the subject, and to submit whether it would not be an anomalous thing for them to order that the Paper moved for should be produced. It was the unanimous opinion of all present that it was not competent for their Lordships to do so, and the noble Earl (the Earl of Derby) pointed out in forcible language the difficulties and inconveniences of such a course. There were two modes by which his noble Friend could have moved for the production of the Papers in question. He could have done so by moving a direct Order of the House; but it was evident that their Lordships could not have enforced such an Order, or he might have proposed an Address to the Crown to order the Paper to be laid on the table; but neither would the Crown have had any power to enforce its production. There was no power either with their lordships or the Crown to compel the Archbishop of Canterbury to produce a particular book or memorial from his library. His 1105 noble Friend pointed to precedents in the other House of Parliament for such a proceeding. But precedents were not law. It was possible that such things might have been done per incuriam, but he could not believe that they were warranted by the rules of the House, and were certainly not safe models for imitation. If that was so, a Member of the other House of Parliament might obtain an order to compel his noble Friend to produce any book in his library which he might wish to lay on the table of the House. There was not the slightest necessity for the Memorial which his noble Friend moved for being laid on their Lordships' table, as a reference to it would have equally answered his purpose. Nobody, he presumed, doubted the existence of such a document.
LORD BROUGHAMsaid, he could not consent that their Lordships should follow the example which his noble Friend (Lord Ebury) told them had been set in "another place." He considered that by doing so they would lower themselves, not only in their own estimation, but in the eyes of the world, to a level to which that House had never yet sunk. His noble Friend said that the other House of Parliament had agreed to an Address to the Crown to cause the Archbishop of Canterbury to produce a book that was in his library. But the Crown could no more order the production of such a document than could the Houses of Parliament. No doubt as the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack had said, such was the course which had been taken; and there was another which might have been taken—namely, to proceed without an Address to the Crown, and send the Serjeant-at-Arms to the Archbishop of Canterbury to call on him to deliver up the book. Then, if the book was not given up, the Serjeant-at-Arms might follow a course resembling that taken by certain persons, not clothed with high authority, but possessed of physical force, who, meeting a man on the highway, produced, not a mace, but another instrument, probably more effectual than the sight of the awful mace, and ordered him to deliver up his purse, with an intimation that if the order was not complied with that instrument, and not entreaty, would be used for the purpose of enforcing it. He would not believe that the House of Commons could be so forgetful of the first principles of justice as to resort to that course; nor could he believe that they would address the Crown to do what was 1106 an illegal act; for the Crown had no more power than the Serjeant-at-Arms to call on the Archbishop of Canterbury to bring a book out of his library. Were it to be so far forgetful of its duty as to attempt to compel him to do so, the officers of the Crown who put this order in force would be subjected to the heaviest penalties.
§ LORD EBURYreplied, that if their Lordships thought the precedent of the House of Commons in this respect was a bad one, he had not another word to say; but he had thought it right to direct their attention to it.