Lords Sitting of 20 April 1860

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—3a Marriages (Extra-Parochial Places.)
ANNEXATION OF SAVOY WITH FRANCE.
  OFFICIAL CORRESPONDENCE.

    MOTION POSTPONED.
    THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBYsaid, that in reference to his Motion which stood
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    for that evening on the subject of the recent Correspondence between Earl Cowley and the Foreign Secretary respecting the annexation of Savoy, and the subject of Official and Private Correspondence, he had been placed in a situation of embarrassment by a communication which had been made to him by his noble Friend (Earl Granville). It was impossible that he could resist the appeal which had been made to him to postpone his Motion, but he must at the same time throw himself on the kind disposition of his noble Friend, and also on the indulgence of the House, in fixing another day on which he might be enabled to bring forward the Motion of which he had given notice. The appeal made to him was founded on the fact that Her Majesty's Ambassador at Paris, intending to come over to assist at the discussion, was detained at Calais, owing to the state of the weather, which prevented the mail packet putting to sea. It appeared that Lord Cowley regarded the notice as an intended censure; he (the Marquess of Normanby) had therefore announced to him that such was very far from his intention and from the scope of his Motion, and, unless it were perfectly convenient for him, he need not be present. However, the noble Earl was now at Calais. Monday, which had been named by his noble Friend, would be very satisfactory to him, if that could be fixed for the discussion, but he found so many Motions fixed for that day that he should be glad to know what disposition there was in the House to facilitate that arrangement.
    EARL GRANVILLEobserved that the following telegram had just been received from his noble Friend Earl Cowley, dated Dover 4·30:—
    "Does Lord Normanby persist in his Motion for to-night? I am only this moment arrived, and as I have not yet taken my seat it is impossible for me to be in the House to-night. If Lord Normanby persists, pray say to the House that I wished to be present and have come over on purpose."
    As his noble Friend had not yet taken his seat it would be more convenient to postpone the matter till Monday.
    THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBYinquired if his noble Friend the Marquess of Clanricarde, who had a notice on the paper for Monday, would give way.
    THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid, that the Motion of which he had given notice for Monday, appeared to him to be of far more importance than that of his

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    noble Friend. It was on the subject of India; and the people of India complained of too little notice being taken of their affairs in Parliament, and the question to which he was to call attention was very important. If the object of the noble Marquess was to pass a vote of censure and charge the Government of course he would give way; but the abstract Resolution of which the noble Marquess had given notice was one which might as well be discussed that day month. He asked if it could not be brought on after his Motion had been disposed of?
    THE MARUESS OF NORMANBYsaid, that his Motion, though not intended as a vote of censure either upon the Government or upon Her Majesty's Ambassador at Paris, was most important, as affecting the conduct of our diplomatic relations, and he thought he should be able to show that if the recognized principles which should regulate such relations had been observed on the occasion referred to, matters would not have been in the present predicament. He had no objection to proceed with the discussion that evening, if their Lordships were of opinion that that was the best course to pursue; but he was not prepared to consent to the proposition of the noble Marquess opposite that his Motion should come on at the close of a long debate upon India.
    EARL GRANVILLEsaid, it would be extremely inconvenient to Lord Cowley, and in some measure injurious to the public service, that the Motion should be postponed beyond Monday next; and under those circumstances he hoped that the noble Marquess near him (the Marquess of Clanricarde) would postpone the Motion which stood in his name for that day.
    THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid, he should not object to act upon the suggestion of his noble Friend, inasmuch as it was based upon the ground of convenience to the public service.
    THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBYsaid, that another difficulty had arisen in reference to the debate to take place on Monday next. He had found from his noble and learned Friend (Lord St. Leonards) that the Divorce Bill was fixed for Committee on Monday evening, and that it was his intention that it should be brought on. The subject of the Divorce Court would therefore take precedence unless his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack would consent to its postponement.
    THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that
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    so far as he was concerned, he should be most willing to postpone the Committee on the Divorce Bill till a later hour of the evening in order that the noble Marquess might have precedence; but he must for the credit of the House protest against its being supposed that they could not entertain more than one subject on any evening. He must refuse to enter into any arrangement of that sort.
    LORD ST. LEONARDSthen said the Divorce Bill must keep its place in the paper.
    THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBYsaid, he must again appeal to his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack to postpone the Divorce Bill to another evening. It would be very inconvenient to many noble Lords if a discussion on another subject should precede the one of which he had given notice.
    THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, he would repeat that, so far as he was concerned, he was willing to postpone the Bill to a later hour of the evening, and he could do no more than that.
    THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBYthen fixed his Motion for Monday.

GENERAL DECAVERO.

  EXPLANATION.
  THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBYsaid, he wished for a moment to call the attention of the House to a personal explanation which he had to make in reference to a letter which he had only yesterday received from General Decavero, who lately held the office of Minister for War in Tuscany, in answer to a communication which he had addressed to the gallant General six weeks ago. In that communication he had stated to General Decavero that great complaints had been made with respect to his conduct as War Minister, in several letters which had reached him (the Marquess of Normanby) from correspondents in Florence in whose statements he placed the utmost reliance; remarking at the same time that, if the General would send him every authentic information showing that he had no knowledge of the irregularities of which complaint was made, and which were said to have taken place during the last autumn, he would take the earliest opportunity of offering an explanation on the subject in public. Now, in the letter which he had received from General Decavero a most distinct disclaimer of the charges which had been advanced

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  against him was contained; while a further statement, it appeared, was made, on the authority of the present Minister for War, to the effect that the contracts for the Commissariat did not come under the direct control of the person who occupied the position which he filled. He, under these circumstances, felt bound, while declining in the present agitated circumstances of their country to give up the names of his correspondents, to express the regret which he felt at having stated anything which could have caused pain to General Decavero, and to say that he most frankly accepted his distinct disclaimer of the truth of the reports to which he alluded. In justification of his correspondents, however, he must add that their statement as to the dilapidated condition into which the finances of Tuscany had fallen was based not upon their own authority, but rested on the official report of the Minister of Finance. It could be shown by the Acts of the Finance Deparment to what an awful extent the Tuscan finances had been burdened by unprofitable expenditure. The expenditure of the War department alone had been 17,000,000 Tuscan lire—more than half of the entire revenue under the Grand Duke.
  House adjourned at Six o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.