Lords Sitting of 9 June 1859

MINUTES.
Sat First in Parliament.—The Lord Tyrone, after the Death of his Brother; The Lord Conyers, after the Death of his Uncle the Duke of Leeds.
Took the Oath.—Several Lords.
PUBLIC BILLS:—la. Vexatious Indictments; Debtor and Creditor; The Companies (1859).
2a. Law of Property and Trustees Relief Amendment.

THE CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF DUBLIN.

  QUESTION.
  THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURYsaid, he wished to put a Question to the noble Earl the First Lord of the Treasury upon
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  a subject which had excited public attention. He doubted not there had been a great deal of misunderstanding and misrepresentation with regard to it, and he thought the Government should give some explanation of their real intentions as to the rumoured grant of a charter to the Roman Catholic University in St. Stephen's Green, Dublin. Attention was first called to the matter by the language which had been used on the occasion of a deputation which waited on the Chancellor of the Exchequer just before the dissolution, and subsequently by a speech which had been delivered by Mr. Bowyer. He wished to set those doubts at rest, and for that purpose he would now ask, in the words of a notice which he had sent to the noble Earl, Whether it be the intention of Her Majesty's Government to advise the grant of a charter to the Roman Catholic University of St. Stephen's Green, Dublin, or whether any negotiations are pending with that object?
  THE EARL OF DERBY: I have no difficulty, my Lords, in answering the question of my noble Friend, by saying that it is not the intention of Her Majesty's Government to advise the Crown to grant such a charter. With regard to "negotiations," I can only say that the reply from me as to whether negotiations have taken place depends upon what the noble Earl means by the word. It is undoubtedly true that on two occasions memorials have been presented to the Government by Roman Catholic gentlemen, expressing their wish that a charter should be granted; but no promise has been given, and no expectation has been held out that the recommendations of the memorialists would be complied with. With respect to another portion of the noble Earl's statement, I have to say that until after I received notice of this Question, I did not know what had been said in conversation by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer: hut since receiving notice of the Question, I have made inquiry of my right hon. Friend, and have been told by him that he had seen a deputation on the subject, and had promised that the matter should be taken into consideration.

  THE QUEEN'S ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS.
  The LORD STEWARD OF THE HOUSEHOLD(the Marquess of Exeter), brought up the following gracious Message

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  from HER MAJESTY, in Answer to theAddress:—
  "MY LORDS,
  "I thank you sincerely for your loyal and dutiful Address.
  "It is very gratifying to Me to be assured that the Measures of legal and social Improvement which will be again brought before you will receive your careful Consideration: and I rely with Confidence on your cordial Assistance in My Endeavours to preserve to My People the inestimable Blessings of Peace."

DEBTOR AND CREDITOR BILL.—THE COMPANIES BILL (1859).

  BILLS PRESENTED AND READ 1ª.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR presented these Bills and said that, with their Lordships' sanction, he would pass these Bills through the House with as much rapidity as the forms of the House would permit. The Debtor and Creditor Bill underwent considerable discussion in the last Parliament, and he had communicated with his noble and learned Friends who took great interest in it. He understood that one of his noble and learned Friends (Lord St. Leonards) proposed to introduce a clause which he thought was absolutely necessary to make the Bill complete. He proposed to take the second reading of both Bills to-morrow, and his noble and learned Friend could move his clause when the Debtor and Creditor Bill was in Committee. The other Bill was acquiesced in so completely by their Lordships that he did not anticipate any discussion upon it.
  Bills read 1a and to be read 2a Tomorrow.

  THE WHITSUNTIDE HOLYDAYS.
  THE EARL OF DERBYsaid that, although he did not suppose their Lordships were very much exhausted by the labours of the present Session, yet he should, if no business which rendered it imperative that they should sit in the early part of next week arose, propose to-morrow evening that the House should then adjourn until the following Thursday, for the Whitsuntide holydays.
  Afterwards,
  THE EARL OF DERBYsaid, that he understood from the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack that it would be convenient that their Lordships should
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  meet on Wednesday next, in order to dispose of some judicial business. He would therefore give notice that to-morrow he should move the adjournment of the House until Wednesday next, with the understanding that judicial business only would be transacted on that day.

THE VERNON AND TURNER GALLERIES OF PICTURES.

  CORRESPONDENCE MOVED FOR.
  THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY moved,
  "That there be laid before this House, Copy of the Correspondence between the Trustees of the National Gallery and the Council of the Society for the encouragement of Arts, Manufactures, and Commerce, with reference to the Opening of the Vernon and Turner Galleries of Pictures at South Kensington of an Evening; and also for Copies of all Letters and Memorials on the same Subject which may have been received by the said Trustees up to the date of their making the Returns now moved for."
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY, on behalf of the Government, said, he should offer no objection to the production of the correspondence.
  After a few words from Lord MONTEAGLE,
  LORD OVERSTONEsaid, that this Motion was premature. He could assure their Lordships that the Trustees of the National Gallery sought to promote no other end than that the treasures in their custody should, as far as possible, be open to the public, and made to contribute to their rational amusement as well as their intellectual improvement, but always consistently with their safe custody and preservation. The question of opening picture galleries in the evening was, however, entirely a new one, and before such a step was taken the effect of gaslight upon the paintings ought to be carefully considered. No national collection of pictures in the world had, he believed, up to the present, been thrown open in the evening; but whether that might be done without any injurious result was, no doubt, a point deserving of attention. He had only to add that he had attended a meeting of the Trustees of the National Gallery on Monday last, when Sir Charles Eastlake had undertaken to investigate the' question with a view to its solution. The trustees had received a vast mass of letters offering suggestion from the Secretaries of Mechanics and other Institutes, and if all these were printed he thought great ex-

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  pense would be incurred without any corresponding benefit. He would not, how ever, oppose the noble Earl's Motion, if he thought proper to persevere with it.
  LORD ST. LEONARDSwas of opinion that great danger would result from lighting up the National Gallery or any other of our great picture galleries at night. He could not, also, help remarking that the National Gallery was even at present used for the purposes of conversation and appointment, and he could not help thinking that if the galleries in question were opened in the evening matters might become still worse in that respect.
  THE EARL OF DERBYsaid, there could be no sort of objection to the papers asked for by his noble Friend; but the present was hardly the time for the discussion of the question whether the gallery should be open at night or not.
  LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEYsaid, he did not wish to pronounce an opinion on the propriety of lighting up the Gallery with gas but he would remind the House that the Sheepshanks' Collection was now exhibited at night, and that a valuable been was thus granted to persons who had not time to inspect these pictures during the day. He would suggest to the Government whether some plan might not be adopted by which the light should be admitted from the top, as in the House of Commons, so that the fumes of the gas could not injure the pictures.
  Motion agreed to.

  THE MILITIA.—QUESTION.
  THE DUKE OF NEWCASTLEasked, when the Report of the Commission appointed last year to inquire into the state of the Militia of the United Kingdom would be laid on the table. It was important that that Report should be produced with as little delay as possible, because he knew that in various militia regiments arrangements were kept in suspense until its recommendations could be ascertained.
  The MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, the Commission, of which he was a member, had been forced to adjourn for a considerable time, but would renew its sittings on Monday next, when he believed its Report would be considered.
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half-past Ten o'clock.