Lords Sitting of 8 July 1859

AFFAIRS OF ITALY.

  NOTICE OF MOTION WITHDRAWN.
  VISCOUNT STRATFORD DE RED-CLIFFE, who had given notice of a Motion,
  "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, expressing the Thanks of this House for Her Majesty's gracious Communication of the deeply important Correspondence on Italian Affairs presented recently to both Houses of Parliament by Her Majesty's Command; and gratefully acknowledging the unquestionable Evidence which that Correspondence affords of Her Majesty's earnest and impartial Endeavours to avert the Calamity of War:
  "That Her Majesty may be assured of the loyal Confidence with which this House relies on Her Majesty's Determination to maintain inviolate the Neutrality, as therein declared, of Her Majesty's dominions:
  "That, finally, it be represented to Her Majesty, as the Opinion of this House, That, while every suitable and vigorous Effort is made, under Her Majesty's Authority, for the Completion of our Defences on Sea and Land, the Operations of the belligerent Powers should be carefully observed, with a view in particular to such eventual Offers of Mediation on Her Majesty's Part as may contribute with due Effect to the
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  early Conclusion of Peace on just and comprehensive Terms."
  My Lords, I was prepared to redeem the pledge which I gave when I did myself the honour of announcing my intention to bring under your Lordships' deliberation the Correspondence which was graciously presented by Her Majesty's commands to both Houses of Parliament at the beginning of this Session. I was aware that I had undertaken a very considerable, not to say an arduous task. I was also aware that certain objections might be alleged against the course I intended to adopt. But on the whole I thought that arguments of sufficient cogency could be urged in its favour; and I made up my mind to incur some risk by persevering with the Motion, not doubting that your Lordships' discretion and judgment would counteract any tendency towards error upon my part, and that a fair balance of advantage would upon the whole result from a discussion of the points connected with this correspondence. It was my impression that if the opinions of independent Members of the Legislature, unfettered by the restraints of office, went forth to the country at large, with respect to our late negotiations, a most salutary effect might have been obtained in the event of those negotiations being renewed. But, my Lords, an event of great importance has come to the knowledge of the public this morning—an event which not only arrests at once an awful effusion of blood, and relieves the distressed feelings of every individual, I believe, in this country and on the continent of Europe — but which, as I devoutly hope, may terminate in that most desirable object, the conclusion of a peace. Under these circumstances your Lordships will probably agree with me that any immediate discussion in Parliament with reference to those negotiations might be productive of real inconvenience and disadvantage. I have consulted upon the subject Friends, whom and in whose judgment I place the greatest reliance, and they see the matter in the same light as I do, and would be glad that I should abandon the Motion for the present. When I use the term "abandon" I do not mean giving up the Motion without reserve, but leaving it for the present upon your Lordships' table, and reserving to myself the right of recurring to it at some later period, if the circumstances of Europe should make me think it would be advisable to adopt such a course. Having felt it my duty to state

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  so much to your Lordships, I think it proper to take this opportunity of adding that the responsibility of the intended Motion, if I had persevered in it, would have been entirely my own. The Notice which I gave was not the result of any concert or consultation with any party upon either side of the House. In truth, my Lords, I am not sorry to have this opportunity of stating that I have no distinct connection with any party. There is no man more sensible than I am of the high ability, of the great personal qualifications of the noble Earl (the Earl of Derby)—I hope he will allow me, from past connections, to call him my noble Friend—the leader of the Opposition side of the House. I am deeply penetrated with a sense of his capacity for government; I am deeply penetrated, likewise, with a sense of the qualifications of many among those who support him; but my duty here is not to give way to personal feelings, but to form a fair and dispassionate judgment of the public interests; and if I take any active part in the proceedings of this House it will be in connection with those who, upon the whole, seem to challenge our confidence, and to whom I am ready to give my general support. In Her Majesty's present Government I cannot but recognize a combination of talent and of administrative experience which are well calculated, especially at this time, to command the respect of the country. I recognize in them likewise a Ministry which is in harmony with the constitutional requirements of the representative House of Parliament, and one which, upon the whole, is moving in the same line of foreign politics, if I understand their language correctly, with the noble Lords upon the other side of the House; and which, moreover, upon the great internal question of reform have entitled themselves to the credit of greater consistency, although I hope I may at the same time be allowed to say, that I do not think their claim is entirely without flaw in that respect. I must repeat, my Lords, that I think the removal of the immediate subject of my Motion renders its discussion at the present moment irrelevant and undesirable; but I cannot dismiss the question without expressing an earnest hope that if negotiations for peace are to be the result of the existing armistice, Her Majesty's Government will be found at their post, and that, if need be, they will claim their right to be associated in the final arrangement of matters. The interests of the world, after
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  all, require that they should not in such a matter neglect their own interests and their own rights, resting hitherto on the observance of those existing treaties, which possess an European character. Whether I look at the treaties which have been placed in jeopardy by the recent occurrences, or at the position of Austria as an integral part of the balance of power in Europe, or at the great Mediterranean peninsula, which has from remote times been the site of a most glorious civilization, and which commands from so many individuals in this country, by reason at least of their education, a large amount of gratitude and affection—to whatever quarter of Europe I turn my eyes, I see reasons for earnestly desiring that Her Majesty's Government should take their proper place in the negotiations which may now be expected, and that they should endeavour to provide as far as possible for the security of those great interests which have been so severely compromised — I say it without reference to the conduct of the late Government— by the outbreak of the belligerents, and the sanguinary events of the war. Anxious to avoid whatever may bring the late negotiations under discussion, I abstain from every observation which might be thought to bear upon the character or conduct of those who were principally concerned in the management of those negotiations, either here or in other countries. No doubt we might, without much difficulty, find in those transactions much to censure, many objects of just anxiety, and some perhaps of apprehension; but I will not go into any part of the correspondence, lest I may inadvertently give occasion for the expression of opinions, leading by possibility, in so delicate and critical a conjuncture, to the production of serious inconvenience and embarrassment to the country. My Lords, I cannot entirely lose sight of the circumstances which preceded and accompanied the conclusion of those comprehensive treaties which, in spite of their errors and their deficiencies have, after all, mainly contributed to the maintenance of peace in Europe during a period of forty-five years. Nobody can have forgotten the perils and the sacrifices by which this country earned its right to take a part in the framing of those great international engagements; and although they have upon more than one occasion suffered no small disparagement—although they have, in the case of Belgium, undergone a signal alteration, sanctioned, however, by an agreement to

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  which all the great Powers gave their assent—although in one case they have been set aside by national predilection for an excluded dynasty—although in the case of Poland and of Cracow they have suffered a most unjust and ominous violation, I cannot forget that after all they have not been, by general opinion, cast aside, but that on the contrary, they still survive for the most part, and are still the object of appeal to every Government in Europe. They are, in fact, the title-deeds of many an extensive territorial possession; they are emphatically those by which Sardinia herself now holds Genoa, as well as those by which the incumbency of Austria upon Italy was either established or restored; and moreover they have a still greater claim to our respect, inasmuch as they are the depositories and safeguards of those achievements in civilization which form, or were meant to form, an imperfect compensation for all that Europe had to endure in the early part of this century. They have made the abolition of slavery a part and parcel of the great European law, and they have consecrated the waters of the world, whether flowing through separate States or extending into the boundless ocean, to the uses of an unfettered and an almost unquestioned navigation. I sincerely hope, as I have already said, that the present armistice may lead to negotiations of a satisfactory character, and that the voice of England will not be put to silence in those negotiations. I trust that we shall never cease to feel how greatly our character depends upon the place which we occupy in the great European Council; I trust that——
  LORD BROUGHAM: I put it to the noble Lord whether he is not doing the very thing which we all wish to avoid, and the fear of which has induced him to withdraw his Motion. Let the truce extend from the north of Italy to this House, and let us abstain altogether, for some weeks at least, from touching on the question of foreign policy.
  VISCOUNT STRATFORD DE RED-CLIFFE: Though I should be sorry if anything that fell from me were calculated to wound the conscience of my noble and learned Friend, I must take the liberty of saying that I think he has mistaken the drift of my observations.
  LORD BROUGHAMsaid, that the natural effect of them would be to lead to a debate.
  VISCOUNT STRATFORD DE RED-CLIFFE: It certainly is not my intention
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  to provoke a debate; but I should be slow to think that any serious injury would be done if the noble and learned Lord were now induced to make an addition to those numerous efforts of his eloquence which the House has so often listened to with attention and pleasure. But in truth, my Lords, I may have been led to say more than I intended in the outset. At all events I have accomplished my present object, in drawing the attention of your Lordships to the existing European treaties, and in expressing the hope that England will have her due place and influence in the negotiations for peace whenever those negotiations shall be opened in good earnest. Far be it from me to drop any word that might prove a source of embarrassment to Her Majesty's Government under such critical circumstances. I have indeed expressed a strong hope in general terms but I have offered no opinion, I have not even tried to elicit the opinion of others, with respect to the line which Her Majesty's Government ought to take in any negotiations consequent on the existing armistice. I cannot sit down without acknowledging the kind indulgence with which your Lordships have received my remarks, and I now beg leave to withdraw the Motion on your Lordships' table, reserving only the power of renewing it at some future time.
  THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBY, who was imperfectly heard, was understood to say that while he concurred in the reasons which induced the noble Lord to withdraw his Motion, yet, as the noble Lord in the course of his observations, had expressed confidence in the Government, and in the noble Lord at the head of the Government, to whom the conduct of these transactions was entrusted, he (the Marquess of Normanby) felt that he was bound, in justice to his own opinions, to reserve to himself a fitting opportunity at some future time to state the reasons why he could not concur in that opinion of confidence in the Government which the noble Lord expressed, and that he regretted that the accession of that noble Lord to office—which he deprecated on the first night of the Session —had taken place, and that the conduct of the negotiations for peace would now be placed in the hands of the noble Lord. Circumstances had since taken place which he believed it would be his duty to press upon their Lordships' attention, not with any idea that he possessed influence enough to alter their Lordships' opinion, but in order to justify himself for watching with

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  scrupulous anxiety the line which the noble Lord would take in these negotiations. One word more. Though he concurred in opinion with the noble and learned Lord that their Lordships ought to abstain from all observations at present as to the state of affairs, yet he for one could not bind himself to the promise that he would not touch upon our foreign policy for the time the noble Lord and he suggested. He did not share the confident expectation of the noble Lord as to the result of this armistice. He rather hoped than trusted that it would lead to this happy result; but circumstances had conic to his know lodge within the last few days in reference to a circular issued by the Foreign Minister of France, which warned him that it would be necessary, while watching the conduct of the foreign policy of this country, that they should also watch the policy of the Government of France. With regard to the armistice, he felt they must wait till they knew its terms before they could pronounce an opinion on it.
  EARL GRANVILLE: On the part of Her Majesty's Government, and I may almost venture to say on the part of the whole House, I beg to thank my noble Friend behind me for the course he has taken in withdrawing the Motion which he had placed on your Lordships' table. Even before the intelligence we received this day, I certainly had misgivings as to the propriety of discussing that Motion at present. At the same time I perfectly admit that, when a noble Lord like my noble Friend behind me, one of the most eminent diplomatists of this country and of Europe, thinks that his place in this assembly gives him an opportunity of speaking upon a most important question bearing upon foreign affairs, it is both our wish and our duty to give him the opportunity. Whatever may be thought of the intelligence we have received this day, there cannot be the slightest doubt that though that message does not give conclusive proof that the blessed consummation of peace will be arrived at, yet it does give us this very satisfactory assurance, that the two Emperors of France and Austria feel the necessity of endeavouring to come to some arrangements which will prevent a further effusion of blood. I am perfectly sure that your Lordships would deprecate any act on our part, or any word from our lips which would in the slightest degree do mischief in the present circumstances of the case, and I therefore most thoroughly concur in,
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  and at the same time offer my thanks to the noble Lord for the course which he has taken. I think your Lordships will fool that I am justified in not following the noble Lord throughout the speech which he has made, not only because in my opinion it would be indiscreet in the present crisis for any individual Member of the House to discuss this subject, but because it would be an absolute dereliction of duty on the part of any Members of Her Majesty's Government, as faithful servants of Her Majesty and of Her Crown, to take part in a discussion which could have no good effect, and which, I am quite sure, might create difficulties abroad, and place ourselves in a disadvantageous position when the time came for exercising that influence which I trust we shall be able to exercise in settling this great question in the most advantageous manner.
  Order of the Day for Lords summoned, read, and discharged.
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.