HL Deb 11 April 1859 vol 153 cc1595-600
LORD REDESDALE

, in moving that there be laid before the House "Copy of the Plan of the Ground to be proposed to be appropriated by the Hon. Society of Lincoln's Inn to the Courts and other Buildings for the Transaction of the Business of the Court of Chancery under the provisions of the Court of Chancery Accommodation Bill now before the House, and Plans and Elevations of the said Courts and Buildings," said, he thought that the entire subject of the accommodation of the Courts of Law and Equity should be taken into general consideration. The accommodation for the courts at Westminster and elsewhere had become inadequate to the requirements of the country, and it was extremely desirable that something should be done to remedy the evil. But before the House assented to the Bill referred to in his Motion, it ought to have before it plans of the ground proposed to be appropriated for the enlargement of the Court of Chancery, and also of the buildings to be erected upon it, because without such plans it would be premature for their Lordships to sanction a measure involving a considerable expenditure of money, and permanently fixing the site of the Courts of Equity. The power sought to enable the Chancellor to appropriate to this purpose £4,000 a year for ninety-nine years from the Suitors' Fund, made this a matter of public interest and importance. He had observed that a petition had been presented to their Lordships from the Incorporated Law Society, directing attention to a very much larger scheme, by which it was proposed to bring together all the courts of law and equity on a space of ground now covered with buildings of a very objectionable description, situated between Carey Street and the Strand. The site contemplated for this scheme extended over seven acres of land, and when it was stated that the estimated cost of the ground alone would amount to no less than £600,000, it was evident the magnitude of the undertaking was sufficient to make the House pause before they gave it their sanction. It had been suggested that a portion of the accumulation called the Suitors' Fund should be appropriated to the purchase of the ground and the erection of the buildings. He would not now inquire how far it was just and proper to apply any portion of this fund to the purpose of any projected improvements in the courts, at any rate any such proposition would require great deliberation. He had some doubts as to the advisability of concentrating all the courts of law and equity in the neighbourhood of Lincoln's Inn and the Temple, as he thought that it was not wise thus to separate the profession of the law from all the rest of the community. It appeared to him that the location of the Courts of Law in close proximity to the Houses of Parliament was an advantageous arrangement. It must be remembered that the attendance of the Judges and of counsel is frequently called for in this House as the final Court of Appeal, and that consequently all the judicial work cannot be concentrated elsewhere, and he thought that it would be more desirable to seek the increased accommodation required at Westminster than to transfer the Courts now there to another part of the town. This might be done at a comparatively small expense by stopping the present way from Parliament Street, making the communication to Abingdon Street from Whitehall down King Street, by the Abbey into Old Palace Yard. The cost of widening King Street must be incurred for the Public Offices, which are to front it, and the removal of St. Margaret's Church would be the sole charge for obtaining the large space of ground he proposed to devote to the new Courts, namely, the site of the present Courts, of the street in front of them, and of the present enclosure in which Canning's Statue is placed, and, though not so large as that before mentioned to be got for £600,000 in Carey Street, he believed to be sufficient for the purpose. There should be ample accommodation in every Court for Judges, counsel, jury, and witnesses, but large Courts were not good for the transaction of business, and a large admission of the public, the expression of whose opinion has often too much influence with juries, is not good for justice. The several Courts should he brought as near together as is compatible with such accommodation, but if too large an area is given to the architect to play with, the long corridors and wide separation of each department from another which we complain of here, will be repeated its the new Courts. The new arrangement of streets which he proposed would be most ornamental to the town, by opening a view of the North Transept of Westminster Abbey from Whitehall, and the gateway into the Court of New Palace Yard would form a noble termination to Parliament Street, and great convenience to the public would be obtained by separating the traffic from Whitehall over Westminster Bridge, from that to Abingdon and Victoria Streets, and other parts of Westminster. He made these suggestions because he desired the question to be fully considered, and thought he would not be justified in expressing a hope that the Courts should be kept at Westminster, if he did not show the manner in which it could be done. The noble Lord concluded by his Motion.

LORD ST. LEONARDS

said, he did not intend to oppose the Motion. There were many reasons which made it desirable that the equity Courts should be retained at Lincoln's-inn. There was great misapprehension abroad both as to what was proposed, and the source from which the necessary funds were to be obtained. The Court of Chancery was at the present time greatly in need of commodious courts. When the Act of 1852 was passed it was intended that the chief clerks should be appointed to each Judge to carry on the business of the courts, and that for the more efficient discharge of these duties the chief clerks should be in direct communication with their respective Judges. In consequence of the present inadequacy of the courts the chief clerks were separate from the Judges, and the complete working of the new system was rendered impossible. Every year that elapsed rendered it more and more necessary to have more convenient and commodious courts.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

said, he had given way to his noble and learned Friend who had just sat down with the more satisfaction on account of his great experience in all matters connected with the Court of Chancery, as well as on account of the great improvements which had been effected by his noble and learned Friend's Act of 1852. It was to give full effect to the improvements introduced by that Act that he had proposed his present measure for the better accommodation of the Court of Chancery. With regard to the Motion before them for the plans and elevations of the proposed buildings, he must remind their Lordships that these plans were not theirs; they were as much the property of the Society of Lincoln's. Inn as the plans for improving their Lordships' estates belonged to their Lordships nor was there any public money applied for which would justify their Lordships in requiring them. Neither was his noble. Friend correct in stating that public money was asked for to erect the Vice Chancellors' Courts. It was true that power was applied for to appropriate £ 5,000 of the Suitors' Fee Fund for the erection of those Courts, but so little was this considered to be public money that a clause was introduced into that Bill, providing that in ease of there being a deficiency after the application of that money, it should be considered as a private debt, and repaid to the public. He had introduced the present Bill—not as connected with the Government, but from his position as the head of the Court of Chancery, and from the absolute necessity that existed for greater accommodation to be given to that Court. When two additional Vice Chancellors were appointed in 1841, the Society of Lincoln's Inn, at their own expense, built two Courts for the temporary accommodation of those Judges; but he believed that if those Courts were not soon pulled down they would fall down of their own accord. By the provisions of the Act of 1852 the Masters in Chancery were abolished, and a great portion of their business was now done by the Judges in the Court of Chancery, and by their chief clerks in chambers. Rooms had been hired for the purpose, but the accommodation was extremely inconvenient, and the efficiency of the Act of 1852 was seriously impaired for the want of proper accommodation. In order to carry out the purposes of that Act it was absolutely essential that the chief clerks should have their chambers close to the Courts, as they were required to be in constant communication with the Judges. Now, the Society of Lincoln's Inn proposed to give a site and to erect proper buildings for the Courts of Chancery, provided they were guaranteed 4 per cent on their outlay, and on the loss of rent they would incur by the pulling down of the chambers it would be necessary to remove. By the Act of 1852 the Lord Chancellor had the power to apply a portion of the Suitors' Fee Fund to provide Courts and offices; but they could only apply that fund from year to year; and what the Society desired was, that they should be secured for their outlay by a term of years being guaranteed; and that was the only ground which rendered an application to Parliament necessary. He thought that such was the urgent necessity for the measure that this proposal would be acceded to at once; and so it probably would, but for the suggestion of a larger scheme, by which it was proposed to clear a site of seven acres lying between Carey Street and the Strand, and to concentrate all the Courts of Law and Equity on that spot. That might or might not be a fair project to consider; but the means by which it was proposed to accomplish this object it was his duty to oppose, because he understood that the Incorporated Law Society proposed to take £800,000 from the Suitors' Fee Fund, and apply it to the purposes of that building. His noble Friend at the head of the Government had consented to grant a Commission to inquire into the expediency of concentrating the Courts, and the means by which it could be effected. But, independent of that inquiry, he believed it would be unjust to take the Suitors' Fund for such a purpose, because he believed it would be found that this Fund had to bear charges to such an extent that no surplus could exist to the extent contemplated. But even suppose such a plan were considered desirable, and that funds could be found for the purpose, either from the Suitors' Fund or from the Government, how many years must elapse before the plan could be carried out? and in the meantime the suitors in the Court of Chancery and the public generally would be suffering from the want of that accommodation which was at this moment so much required. He could not see, for his part, that this limited measure which he proposed could interfere prejudicially with the larger plan, because the Courts to be erected in Lincoln's Inn under this Bill would be scarce 200 yards from the site proposed in the large plan. He hoped, therefore, that his noble Friend would not persevere in asking for the production of these plans.

LORD CAMPBELL

expressed his high satisfaction at the intimation that the noble Earl at the head of the Government had agreed to appoint a Commission to inquire into the expediency of concentrating all the Courts, for the subject was of the last importance to the Judges, the bar, and the public at large. As that Commission was to be appointed, and would, no doubt, report fully, he suggested whether it might not be better to postpone further discussion on the subject until their report was on the table? All further discussion ought to be suspended until the information sought for was forthcoming.

LORD CRANWORTH

agreed in all that the Lord Chancellor had said as to the impediment to the working of the Act of 1852 arising from the want of accommedation in the Court of Chancery and the inconvenience that arose from the Chief Clerks not being placed where they could be in constant communication with the Judges. Whether or not it would be convenient to postpone all further discussion on this subject till the Commission had made its report, he had not had an opportunity of considering; hut, at any rate, the plans asked for ought to be laid before Parliament; because, if for any reason the Court of Chancery was obliged to come before Parliament for money, even though it was only to sanction the application of the money from other quarters, Parliament was entitled to say that the whole matter should be laid before them before they gave their decision.

Motion agreed to.