§ THE EARL OF POWIScalled the attention of the Noble Marquess the Lord President of the Council (the Marquess of Salisbury) to the rules by which moneys contributed by charities interested as landowners, although authorised by schemes of the Court of Chancery, or by the Charity Commissioners, were excluded from consideration as local contributions in respect of which educational grants were given. The Noble Earl was understood to refer to the fact that the trustees of a charity 810 estate in Shropshire had, under the direction of a scheme authorised by the Court of Chancery, expended certain sums of money upon the foundation of some schools; yet, when an application was made to the Committee of Privy Council for a grant, their contribution was not permitted to stand on the footing of a voluntary subscription, which formed, according to the rules, the basis for a Parliamentary grant. There were many charitable estates similarly situated, the Court of Chancery or the Charity Commissioners having empowered them to contribute to schools, but the contributions of which could not be met with corresponding Government grants. He did not see why there should be any distinction between property held by corporations of this sort and the property of individuals; both should be available for the purposes of education, and he hoped the subject would receive the earnest attention of the Committee of Council.
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, he was glad that the noble Earl had given him an opportunity of looking into this case. It appeared that about ten years ago the Court of Chancery issued a scheme directing that the proceeds of certain sales should, instead of increasing the allowances to certain aged persons, recipients of the charity, be employed in the foundation of schools. Subsequently, an application was made to the Committee of Council on Education for a grant in aid, but the applicants were informed that the rule on which Parliamentary grants were made was, that they should be given in aid of voluntary contributions; and he was sure his noble Friend would see, that where trustees were directed by the Court of Chancery to expend sums of money out of the proceeds of certain estates in the building of schools, they could not be considered as voluntary contributions on their part. The subject was, no doubt, one that required attention, and he might be permitted to hope that the allusion now made to it would lead to some modification, but he was not prepared to express any decided opinion on a subject which had been so lately brought under his notice. All he could now say was, that the matter would receive the fullest consideration at the hands of the Government.
§ EARL GRANVILLEquite agreed that nothing would be more desirable than the introduction of improvements into the administration of charities; but he warned the noble Marquess that the question was one of enormous difficulty. As it seemed to him, 811 the only sound test of a charity, for the purpose of obtaining a Parliamentary grant for educational purposes, was the voluntary contributions which it obtained; because, not only did those contributions show that such a charity was in favour with the public, hut they offered a guarantee that the management of the school would be properly looked into; but he admitted that it did seem hard, when money was subscribed by a charity having landed property, that it should not be met by a corresponding grant from the public purse, just as was the contribution of private individuals. Some amelioration might be made with respect to particular cases in which charities were the subscribers; but the general principle was a sound one, and it would be most unwise to interfere with it.
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYassured the noble Earl that he had no intention of interfering with the general principle.
§ House adjourned at Seven o'clock, to Monday next, Half-past Ten o'clock.