§ THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHrose, to move the second reading of the East India Loan Bill, and said,—My Lords, the 240 necessity of this measure is so obvious that it is hardly necessary to trouble your Lordships with much explanation on the subject. Your Lordships are all aware of the peculiar difficulties with which the Government of India have at the present moment to contend, in consequence of the unfortunate disturbances in that country. The object of the Bill is to enable the East India Company to raise a sum of £8,000,000 in this country within a given time. There is an extremely useful clause which has been inserted in the Bill during the progress of the measure through the other House to the effect that there shall he a full account of all the liabilities and debts of the East India Company, under different heads, presented to Parliament at the end of each year. Now, in a very few words I shall explain to your Lordships what the pecuniary position of the Company really is at the present moment. On the 31st of January, 1858, the East India Company had in cash £734,512; the principal of Exchequer Bills and Exchequer Bonds belonging to them amounted to £1,800,000; and their stock at market price was estimated at £285,000; so that they had actually at their disposal a sum of £2,819,512, the whole of which was immediately available. They had, besides other property of great value, but not immediately convertible, including £547,000, the assumed value of the premises in Leadenhall Street, of those at Hayleybury College, and of barracks, &c.; £396,822, the value of unshipped stores, and advances on account of steam vessels and machinery; and £7,910, the amount of small debts for advances in England. These three sums amount together to £951,732. But against the sum of £2,819,512, actually available, are to be placed the debts due from the Company on the 31st of January last, amounting to £9,877,665. On looking at the receipts of the Company in 1857–8, I find there is a considerable sum which will not be received in the year 1858–9. There was a sum of £638,692 under the head of bills of exchange from India. From that source not more than £120,000 is to be expected in the ensuing year. There was also a very large sum received from Her Majesty's Government on account of payments in India, amounting altogether to £2,036,786. This item was made up to a considerable extent of sums to be received in respect of the war in China and the war in Persia. The Company also borrowed in the year now expiring, on the security 241 of Indian bonds, £1,970,000 and they sold Exchequer bills and bonds to the amount of £2,749,839 for the purpose of meeting demands upon them. I now regret to say that the calculation is, that not more than £240,000 is to be depended upon in the next year from the two first heads of income. There will be a large sum payable from railways; but, making allowance for that, you cannot reckon on more than £1,000,000 to meet the expenditure of the ensuing year. Under these circumstances I am quite sure there cannot be one among your Lordships who will fail to perceive that it is absolutely necessary to increase the borrowing powers of the East India Company. At present the Company have the power of borrowing on bonds to an extent which is yet unexhausted of £1,000,000, and therefore, after the passing of this Bill, their borrowing powers will extend to £9,000,000. I regret extremely that the late Government acquiesced in the suggestion that the power of borrowing given to the Company by this Bill should be limited to £8,000,000 instead of £10,000,000. I also regret that the Bill was not passed, as it might have been, three weeks ago, inasmuch as there has since been a material change in the money market. But, although there is, no doubt, great pecuniary difficulty felt by the Company, which has rendered necessary the power contemplated by this Bill, do not let it be supposed that I have the smallest doubt of the ability of the Company to repay all this money, and to meet all their engagements. The state of India is this. No doubt in the course of the last year, in consequence of the mutiny, there has been a very great loss of property belonging to the Company, and a great diminution of revenue; but let it be recollected that all the revenue of Madras, Bombay, Scinde, the Punjab the country near Delhi, and the lower provinces remains in the possession of the English Government; the only injury at present done is in the country around Allahabad and in Rohilcund. It is, besides, a great cause of satisfaction that the price of opium is so high, for a very considerable increase of revenue may be expected under that head, to the extent perhaps of £1,500,000. There is no doubt, therefore, that even at present the state of the revenue of India is such as to justify the hope that even in the present year an improved state of things will be apparent in India. It may be necessary when I am asking for money to state what 242 I conceive to be the present posture of affairs in India. I should distinctly say that what I expect is this — that by the end of this month the Commander in Chief, now engaged in concentrating his forces, will have destroyed Lucknow. I think the bodies of rebels who have congregated in that place will have been driven out of it by a fire under which no man can hope to live. I expect, therefore, there will not be in India, after the commencement of the month of April, any considerable rebel force remaining in a body. There will be, no doubt, desultory and predatory movements made in various parts of the country, and a number of men will be required, and great exertions will be necessary to prevent these movements or to keep them in check. Some time will, therefore, probably elapse before the country is reduced to a state of complete tranquillity; but I trust that by the beginning of April our troops will be housed for the hot weather in the palaces of Lucknow. I do not state this from any information I have received since I have been in office. I am now only repeating precisely what I stated in conversation two months ago. I have only thought it necessary to say this much, because when I ask the House to agree to a measure for enabling the East India Company to borrow a sum of £8,000,000, I think it right at the same time to give a favourable view of the actual financial position in which I think the Company will be placed in a very short period.
§ Motion made That the Bill be now read 2a.
§ LORD MONTEAGLErejoiced greatly to hear the favourable opinion which had been expressed by the noble Earl with reference to the transactions taking place in India. He had himself some time back moved for certain papers bearing upon the subject to which the present Bill had reference, and as they had not yet been produced, he would reserve any observation which he might wish to make until a future stage of the Bill. He hoped that the noble Earl would acquit him of any desire to obstruct the progress of the Bill, but he did think it desirable that a full discussion should take place before it passed into law.
§ EARL GRANVILLEsaid, that it was hardly necessary for him to say that he and those with whom he acted would support the Bill, for in point of fact it was their own Bill; but he quite agreed with the noble Lord who had spoken last that it 243 would be very desirable before the Bill passed its last stage that a discussion with regard to it should take place. He joined also with that noble Lord in an expression of satisfaction at hearing the candid and public-spirited manner in which the noble Earl had stated his views with regard to the present aspect of Indian affairs.
§ Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committe of the whole House, on Thursday next.