PRIVATE BILLS. (Hansard, 18 June 1858)

§ LORD REDESDALE
said, that since the great improvements in the proceedings with respect to private business originated in that House in 1837, he thought the Committees had worked as well as anything of that sort could; but at the same time he did not think a Parliamentary Committee was the best tribunal for inquiring into these matters. With regard to the expense, he did not think the expense was heavy, except when the Bills were opposed, and, with regard to them, a great portion of the expense was attributable to the parties who had the conduct of the inquiry, and the frightful length of time occupied in consequence. He was not quite sure that something might not be done by requiring that the parties should send in a list of witnesses stating the several points on which they proposed to call them, and that that list should be submitted in the first instance to a Standing Committee, for this purpose, which should limit the number of witnesses that each might call. The investigations before Committees of this House were always shorter than in the other House, and the reason given was that the matter had already been investigated. With regard to the double procedure between the two Houses, he did not think that a great deal was to be gained on that head, because, as he had stated, the great expense was on opposed Bills, and he thought that on opposed Bills a double investigation was desirable. But there might be something done by mutual communication between the two Houses to prevent the necessity of a double investigation on points that were not disputed. Another suggestion was, that there should be in the House a panel of chairmen; but he did not think they could work that in the same way that they did in the House of Commons, which had much more command over their Members than this House had. Another was, that the two Houses should work together, and that they should exchange Bills. At one time he was strongly in favour of something of that sort; and supposing that some great stress of business were to occur, as 5 in 1845, he thought some such arrangement would be desirable: but in ordinary times he did not think it would; because the more time they allowed to the agents the longer would they delay. He would observe that the greatest good had arisen from the Order he was the means of getting passed, that after a certain day no Private Bills would be taken. He thought that from the appointment of the Committee some small good might arise, but he was afraid from the nature of the subject that very little was to be done in the way of remedy for the evils complained of.

LORD BROUGHAM
said, he was more sanguine than the noble Lord who had just spoken as to the result of the appointment of this Committee. The improved mode of conducting the business commenced in this House in 1837, and was suggested by him to the Duke of Wellington. He suggested that there should be a joint Committee, seven of the Commons and five of the Lords, for each Bill, by which means double investigation, which was the great evil, would be avoided. Another suggestion was, that the Committee should sit with a legal assessor. He greatly lamented that these plans were not then adopted, as the root of the evil was the double investigation. Great good had arisen from the appointment of Examiners, though their functions were confined to the Standing Orders. He thought that the same principle might be applied to the merits of the case. If the Committees wore appointed, and a good understanding was come to between this Committee and the Committee of the House of Commons, which he understood was to be appointed, he would fain hope that some good would be effected.

§ LORD PORTMAN
said, he was decidedly of opinion that there should be an examination in each House into the merits of the different Bills, and that the doing away with such deliberate examination would not conduce to the public advantage. He thought, however, that the investigations, and consequently the expense, might be curtailed with great advantage. One important step towards an improvement of the system would be by giving the Committees the power of directing which side should begin in the Private Committees. For instance, in cases which had been determined by the other House, the opponents of a measure might be called upon to state their objections, and then the promoters would have those objections only to 6 meet. He had seen that done in some cases with great success. He also thought it would be a considerable improvement on the present system if a number of Peers, who would attend punctually, would undertake the labour of attending to Private Bills; they would by this means qualify themselves to be very valuable chairmen of Committees, and would render a great service to the public. With respect to the Motion of his noble Friend, he should be happy to render the Committee any assistance in his power in carrying out his inquiry.

THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE
said, he rather doubted the useful working of a joint Committee of both Houses. Perhaps such a Committee might be beneficially employed in deciding questions relating to Standing Orders, but in other cases he thought separate Committees most desirable. It was to be regretted that Parliament had not yet arrived at some definite conclusion as to the principles on which railway legislation was to be carried on; it would be very advantageous if some regulations could be laid down to enable the public to judge whether certain projects were likely to receive the sanction of Parliament, for at present it was impossible for the parties interested to know how any proposal would be received by the Committees. He admitted the difficulties which surrounded the subject, but thought it possible that some general directions might be given as to the settlement of particular questions affecting the interests of the public, when competing railway measures were submitted to Parliament; and perhaps it might be desirable to have some public department to report on each railway project, so that the rights of the public might be protected.