Lords Sitting of 20 April 1858

MINUTES.
Took the Oaths.—The Lord Hawke. PUBLIC BILL.—3a Customs

PRESBYTERIAN CHAPLAINS IN THE ARMY.—QUESTION.
In answer to a question of the Marquess of LONDONDERRY.
VISCOUNT HARDINGEsaid, that the pay of Presbyterian Chaplains attached to the Army was regulated according to a sliding scale of allowances—so much per man—but that at the Curragh, Aldershot, Edinburgh, and one or two other stations, Presbyterian Chaplains on fixed salaries had been appointed in consequence of the largo number of Presbyterian soldiers at those stations. With regard to Shorncliffe, Hythe, and Dovor—the number of Presbyterian soldiers at those three stations being about 300, the Government were prepared to appoint a Presbyterian Minister on a fixed salary at those stations, but that the permanency of the appointment would depend upon these numbers being kept up—as they would be diminished considerably whenever the Antrim Rifles and the North Down Rifles were disembodied, which at some future time might be the case.

GOVERNMENT OF INDIA.

  RESOLUTION'S. QUESTION.
  LORD MONTEAGLEsaid, he observed that Her Majesty's Government had laid upon the table of the House of Commons

  1351
  last night a series of Resolutions with respect to the reconstruction of the East India Government; and as it was obvious that whether those Resolutions were agreed to by that House or not their Lordships would hereafter have to take cognisance of the question, at any rate in the shape of a Bill, it was a matter of no small interest to their Lordships that they should know what were the intentions of Government with respect to the mode of bringing this important question before the House. He had looked into the precedents in two or three cases in which Parliament had proceeded by Resolutions in the first instance —one being the Union with Ireland, and another the renewal of the East India Company's charter in 1813, and he found that the action of the two Houses was as nearly as possible simultaneous in both cases. He would, therefore, take the liberty of asking the noble Earl the President of the Board of Control, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to bring into this House Resolutions similar to those which had been brought into the House of Commons; whether they proposed to do so without delay; and whether they intended to adopt a simultaneous action in both Houses upon the question?
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHsaid, he had to inform his noble Friend that it was not the intention of Her Majesty's Government to invite their Lordships to give any opinion at the present moment upon the Resolutions which had been laid before the House of Commons. He trusted, however, that at no very distant period those Resolutions, with no very material alteration, would be sent up from the House of Commons to their Lordships, when his noble Friend would have an opportunity of expressing an opinion respecting them.

STREET ORGANS.

  PETITIONS.
  THE MARQUESS OF WESTMEATHpresented a Petition, [signed by upwards of 400 inhabitant householders in the districts of Belgravia and Belgravia South, praying for the surpression of the nuisance of barrel or hand organs in the streets of the Metropolis, as permitted by the Metropolitan Police Act. The noble Marquess animadverted in strong terms upon the intolerable nature of the nuisance, and complained that the powers given by the Act were found in pratice to be useless, and that it was
  1352
  impossible to adapt its provisions to what were conceived to be the intentions of the Legislature. A foreigner with an organ appeared in front of a House where there might be a dying or a sick person. It was of no use whatever to request him to go away; and if a family sent for a policeman, in all probability he was not to be found, or if he were he could only order the disturber of the peace of the neighbourhood to move on. When the police were remonstrated with, they replied, "What are we to do? We cannot do more. If we exceed our authority we shall be punished." Consequently these people had perfect impunity to annoy the inhabitants as much as they pleased. The petitioners very properly stood upon their rights. They said that the nuisance was a positive invasion of those rights. They contended that they had a right to live at peace in their own habitations, but they could not do so by reason of the existence of this nuisance. The noise made by these organ players extended to a considerable distance up and down and on each side of the street, so that upon a moderate calculation some twenty or thirty householders must be annoyed at one time. In many families music masters were employed; but how was it possible for them to give lessons to the young ladies, if, as soon as they came to the house, one of these street nuisances made his appearance? [Laughter.] He could assure their Lordships that it was by no means a laughing matter, but a very grave subject. Before the meeting of Parliament he had waited upon the late Home Secretary, Sir George Grey, respecting the question, who had told him that he would refer the matter to the Police Commissioners, and he understood that Sir Richard Mayne had made a report strongly condemnatory of the nuisance. The petitioners earnestly prayed their Lordships to pass such an enactment as would have the effect of restoring to them the right to enjoy tranquillity at their homes, of which the imperfect legislation of the Police Act had been the means of depriving them.
  VISCOUNT DUNGANNONsaid, he had never before heard so much ado about nothing. True, the noble Marquess and those householders who felt with him might dislike the music of the barrel organ in the streets, but there was no doubt that there were a great many persons who derived pleasure and amusement from it. He thought it was most unseemly on the part

  1353
  of the noble Marquess to occupy so much of their Lordships' time with a matter of this trifling and insignificant character.
  THE MARQUESS OF WESTMEATHsaid, that the Petition was numerously and respectably signed; and that being so, he denied that he had improperly taken up the time of the House.
  Petition to he upon the table.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

  RESOLUTION.
  On the Motion of Lord REDESDALE it was Resolved—
  "That this House will not read any Bill a Second Time after Tuesday, the 27th of July, except Bills of Aid or Supply, or any Bill in relation to which the House shall have resolved, before the Second Heading is moved, that the circumstances which render legislation on the subject of the same expedient are either of such recent occurrence or real urgency as to render the immediate consideration of the same necessary."
  House adjourned at half-past Five o'clock, to Thursday next, half-past Ten o'clock.