MOTION FOR COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 16 July 1857)

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH

, in rising to move that a Committee be appointed to inquire into the question of what was the proper scale for a national survey, said, that he was inclined to bring the subject before their Lordships by what had taken place in the other House of Parliament. At one time the 1-inch scale, at another the 6-inch scale, and at another the 25-inch scale had been approved, and each in turn had been condemned, and he thought that it would be most desirable that the question should be finally set at rest by the Report of a Commission of persons whose experience qualified them to form a correct judgment on the subject. The national survey had been lingering on since the year 1827, when the southern counties of England had been surveyed on the scale of one inch to the mile. In 1824, when for the purpose of valuation of town lands in Ireland it was necessary that that country should be surveyed, a Committee of the other House of Parliament, presided over by Lord Monteagle, then Mr. 1548 Spring Rice, had decided that a survey on the 1-inch scale would be useless, and they recommended, and the Government adopted their recommendation, that the survey should be on a scale of not less than six inches to the mile. The survey of England was therefore suspended; and when resumed, the 6-inch scale was adopted for the northern counties, and for the whole of Ireland. In 1840 it was proposed that Scotland should be surveyed on the 6-inch scale. Now, the 6-inch scale was too large for military or geographical purposes, but was not large enough for other purposes, such as tithe computation or valuation, as had been proved by the survey of Ireland on that scale having been found useless for those purposes. In Ireland, for the purpose of valuation, a new survey had been made; and if the original survey had been on the 25-inch scale, it could have been made at a less cost than had been caused by the 6-inch scale. He believed that the cost of a survey on the 25-inch scale was about 11¾d. an acre, while that on the 6-inch was 10¼d., so that the difference in the original expense was not very great. As to the idea that Scotch landowners wished to get their estates surveyed at the public cost, such an idea was absurd, inasmuch as their estates had already been surveyed; but he felt that, for general purposes, a survey on the 25-inch scale would be most advantageous, as had been proved in France and other continental countries. Moved,"That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying Her Majesty to be graciously pleased to appoint a Royal Commission to inquire into the whole subject of the National Survey, and upon the Scale or Scales on which it should be made and on which, it should be published.

§ LORD PANMURE

said, he entirely approved the object of his noble Friend's. Motion. It had been stated in another place that this survey was a job. He could not see upon what ground that assertion was made, because, in his opinion, a great national survey could be of no interest to any single individual so much as to the public at large, who were to benefit by it. The survey was originally commenced on a small scale, which was afterwards extended. It had proceeded to a certain length in England when it was stopped, in order that the survey of Ireland, which a Committee of the House of Commons had decided should be on the 6-inch scale, might be completed. 1549 The 6-inch scale had been found inapplicable to the national purposes of a survey, and, acting upon that experience, Colonel James, the able superintendent of these operations (than whom there was no one better qualified to direct them), suggested the adoption of a 25-inch scale for the remainder of England and for the whole of Scotland, the survey of which country had not been commenced. It had been said that the adoption of this scale for the north of England and Scotland was a job to satisfy the country gentlemen of that part of the empire. Now, he would undertake to say that there was not a landed proprietor in that part of the country who had not already been compelled to survey his estate for his own purposes. The maps so produced, however, were not maps by which the public could be guided, and if there were to be any national document at all, there ought to be a national survey of the whole country eventually carried out upon one scale, but which he would not take upon himself to say. The other House of Parliament had decided upon the scale three or four times, and each time it had pronounced a different opinion. He therefore thought that the course proposed by the Motion of his noble Friend opposite was the most sensible one which could be pursued in this matter. An hon. Member of the other House had said that he should have no confidence in any Commission which might be appointed by the Government, If a Commission was appointed, however, it should consist of such men as the Presidents of the Royal and Geographical Societies, joined with others eminent for scientific or legal attainments. It would then be for that Commission to decide, once for all, on what scale the national survey should be conducted, and for the House of Commons to say at what rate the public money should be expended for conducting it upon that particular scale. All he could do, pending the labours of the Commission, was to complete the survey on the 25-inch scale of such parishes as had already been begun; he could not undertake any fresh surveys upon that scale. He consented to the Motion of his noble Friend, and would take the greatest possible pains to form a satisfactory Commission.