Lords Sitting of 9 July 1857

MINUTES.
Took the Oaths.—Several Lords. Public BILLS.—1a Prisoners Removal; Turnpike Trusts Abolition (Ireland).
2a Crowded Dwellings Prevention; Transfer of Real Estate.

SALE OF OBSCENE BOOKS, &c., PREVENTION BILL.

  AMENDMENT REPORTED.
  LORD CAMPBELLsaid, that, in bringing up the Report, he hoped their Lordships would allow him to make a few observations on this subject. Since he last addressed them he had received information of a most appalling nature, with regard to the sale of these publications; but many of the communications were such that, for decency sake, he would not dwell upon them. But he held in his hand a volume which would give their Lordships a notion of what was going forward. It was a translation of one of the novels of Dumas the younger, on which the opera of La Traviata was founded, and it was called The Lady of the Camellias. It gave a description of the white camellia and the red camellia, in a manner which trenched upon modesty, and which he could not state. He did not wish to create a category of offences in which this hook might be included, although it certainly was of a polluting character. It was only from the force of public opinion and of an improved taste that the circulation of such works could be put a stop to; but he was glad to inform their Lordships that there was a Society for the Encouragement of Pure Literature, of which his noble Friend the Duke of Argyll was president. He was shocked to think that there should be so much circulation for works like the one in his hand—The Lady of the Camellias. In this work the lady described her red camellias and her white camellias; but he would not shock their Lordships by going further. He had heard on good authority that the book was sold at all the railway stations. In it were thirty-two pages of book advertisements, embracing about 100 publications, most of which were of a very abominable description indeed. He referred to a particular portion of the novel in question as a specimen of the mode in which it overstepped the bounds of modesty and propriety. His Lordship then referred to another work of

  1153
  a character still worse than the former. He would not mention the name of this book, as that, no doubt, would be highly gratifying to the publisher, and would promote its sale. But whenever the work had been brought before a jury, which had been done on several occasions, there had been no hesitation felt by the juries in declaring that its obscenity was such as ought to be punished. He believed there were as many as a hundred of these filthy publications for sale in Holywell Street, many of which were of a most disgusting character. In the advertisement of one of these works it was stated to be "illustrated with numerous coloured engravings" and added, "This work has had many imitators, but no rivals. It may be said that for beauty of description it stands without a rival." Formerly this work was sold at the price of one guinea, but it was now published at 3s. 6d. In Holywell Street there were many shops of the same description as that which published the books of which he had been speaking. He thought that the issue of such publications should be made a misdemeanour. What was the remedy for all this, and how was the evidence to be procured? He suggested that there should be a power given, on complaint being made, to institute a search in places supposed to be depots for these publications, and if found they should be carried away and destroyed. A more stringent measure might have been introduced, but he would not ask their Lordships to do more than pass this Bill with its single operative clause, which was to allow, on complaint being made by a party who believed that works of this nature were kept for the purpose of sale, a warrant to be granted for a constable to go with such assistance as might be necessary and accompanied by the party making the complaint, and if these indecent publications were found that they might be carried away and burnt or otherwise destroyed. He thought it should be left to the Judge to say what was and what was not an obscene publication.
  LORD WENSLEYDALEentirely agreed with his noble and learned Friend in the Amendment proposed, but he thought, in the absence of his noble and learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst), that further discussion of the Bill should be postponed until Monday, when that noble and learned Lord would be in his place.
  Amendment reported (according to order), and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.

  COALWHIPPERS BILL
  Order for naming the Select Committee, under Standing Order No. 175 having been read,
  LORD KINNAIRD LORD KINNAIRD moved that the order be discharged, stating at the same time that it was his intention to-morrow to move that the petition of the Coalwhippers be referred to a Select Committee.
  LORD RAVENSWORTHsaid, that since the noble Lord purposed not to proceed with his original Motion he should not object, after the decision at which the House had arrived a few evenings before, to have the petition in question referred to a Select Committee. He should, on the contrary, do everything in his power to facilitate the inquiry before that Committee, and should be prepared to show that the evils of which the noble Lord complained could be obviated by means much less objectionable than those which he had provided in his Bill.
  The order was then discharged.

TRANSFER OF REAL ESTATE BILL.

  PRESENTED. READ 1a.
  LORD BROUGHAMreminded their Lordships that last Friday he had adverted to the experience of a steward of a manor during thirty years, as showing the infinite advantage that would be derived from a cheap, easy, and expeditious mode of conveyance, accompanied, as it must be to be effectual, with a proper system of registration, and it appeared to him (Lord Brougham) that it would by no means be impossible to extend that advantage from copyhold, and to make it general for all real estate. He was sure it would be a great relief to the people that land would thereby be no longer unmarketable, and that it would be greatly increased in value. The Committee that sat to inquire into the burdens on land had reported that one of the greatest of these burdens was the great expense and difficulty, and oftentimes uncertainty, of title attending the transfer of land. He admitted that it was a difficult subject, yet, in redemption of the pledge which he had given, he had prepared a Bill to amend the law touching the conveyance of estate, and for effecting a convenient system of registration, Perhaps his noble Friend on the woolsack would think that he ought to rest satisfied with the Report of the Commission and the prospect held out by his noble and learned Friend of a Bill on the subject;

  1155
  but he would adopt the course he had chosen to follow on the subject of the patent law, and would lay his Bill at once on the table with the hope that an Act on this subject might at length pass into law. The noble and learned Lord then presented a Bill touching the Transfer of Real Estate, and for the Registration of Titles thereof.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, the public and their Lordships were greatly indebted to his noble and learned Friend for introducing this Bill, upon which, as his noble Friend had not explained it in detail, he would not enter upon any observations. Even if the Bill did not become law it would, at all events, be considered before next Session in conjunction with the Bill suggested by the Commisioners, with a view to carrying these suggestions into effect.
  Bill read 1a.
  House adjourned at a Quarter to Six o'clock till to Morrow, Half past Ten o'clock.