Lords Sitting of 3 July 1857

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Burial of the Dead within the City and Liberties of London; In closure Acts Amendment.
2a Sites for Workhouses: Charitable Uses.
3a Grand Juries (Ireland) Act (1836) Amendment; Turnpike Trusts Arrangements; Hanley Borough Incorporation.
ROYAL ASSENT—Consolidated Fund (£8,000,000); Insurance on Lives (Abatement of Income Tax) Continuance; Ministers' Money (Ireland); County Cess (Ireland); Court of Exchequer (Ireland).

RATE OF EXCHANGE—INDIA.
THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHsaid, he saw by the newspapers that the Directors of the East India Company had altered the rate of exchange at which they were prepared to receive funds in this country for Bills drawn on the Indian Government. This alteration was merely a reduction of one farthing in the rupee, but it amounted to 2½d. in the pound; and its effect had immediately been to create a reduction in the price of bar silver and dollars, which of late had been exported to a considerable extent to India. It might be that the Court of Directors had adopted this step at the suggestion of Her Majesty's Government, in order to check the export of silver to that country, which had been increasing to an alarming extent; but whether the step had been taken on this ground or, by offering more favourable terms of remittance, to obtain a large accession of funds to the home treasury in this country, the effect upon the Govern-

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ment of India would be precisely the same. The Indian Government remitted the funds for home expenditure chiefly by two modes. It advanced the funds of India on the security of goods hypothecated to the Company, and on bills payable to the Company here; and it paid in India bills drawn by the Company in tins country on account of money paid into the home treasury. Over the funds it remitted on the security of hypothecated goods the Government of India had power. It could limit the amount of those funds at its pleasure; but it had no power over the sums it paid in discharge of bills sent from this country. The revenue of India at the present moment was subject to three considerable dangers, the first of which was the non-collection of the revenue. There could be no doubt that the largest portion of the country above Agra was in such a state that the difficulty of collecting the revenue must be extremely great. In India no one paid if he could help it; and if it appeared probable that there would be a deficiency in the means of enforcing payment, the revenue would not be regularly paid. More than that, large as was the cash balance of the Government of India, it was by no means accumulated in two or three places, but was distributed and separated in the various treasuries in India. He regretted that there was reason to believe the mutineers of Delhi must have obtained possession of a sum of £400,000 or £500,000. He did not say that the whole of this sum belonged to the Government. The stock of the Delhi Bank must be included in it, but the largest portion of the sum must have belonged to the Government. These treasuries were dispersed all over the country, and when the Government was understood to have a sufficient force at its disposal for their protection they were perfectly safe; but when the contrary was the case, and when a state of things such as that which at present existed in India prevailed, there was no security that these treasuries might not be seized upon by parties who were anxious to enrich themselves at the expense of the Government. It was, further, the custom in India not to transmit money from place to place to any considerable extent by means of bills, but by escorts of military, consisting of regular troops, and occasionally by police. Under present circumstances the Government could not, however, altogether depend upon the regular troops, and therefore could not resort to them as a means of escort. It was there-
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fore in the position of having to encounter great difficulties in the collection of the revenue—of being open to the inconvenience of having the money which was collected plundered—and of not being able to send it to the great centre from which payments were made, owing to the want of an escort on which reliance could be placed. Bearing in mind those triple difficulties, he should entreat the Government to consider most carefully the question whether it might not be expedient to leave it to the discretion of the Government in India whether they should remit or not the sums which might be necessary for expenditure in this country. There might be cases of emergency in which it would be absolutely essential for the Government of India to retain those funds in its own hands to provide for its own security. The Government in this country—the Court of Directors—had other means of supply, as, for instance, by the issue of India bonds or by the assistance of Her Majesty's Government, who, he concluded, would be ready to lend their aid in case of any emergency which might arise. His own immediate predecessor, as he understood, when the catastrophe which took place at Cabool occurred, had called upon the Court of Directors not to require him to make remittances to this country for a period of two years. The subject was one of no ordinary importance, and he wished, therefore, earnestly to call the attention of the Government to the question whether, by means of any extraordinary demand for money to be remitted to this country, the Government of India might not be precluded from taking those steps which, under existing circumstances, they might deem to be absolutely necessary for their own safety.
EARL GRANVILLEassured the noble Earl that the reduction in the rate of exchange was altogether attributable to the ordinary operations of commerce. There was no fear of any undue drain upon the Indian Treasury, as the amount of bullion in the hands of the Governor General was at present £10,000,000, while he had opened a loan of £3,000,000 to meet any contingency which might arise. He, however, quite admitted the importance of the subject, and the noble Earl might rest satisfied that the Government would take the necessary precautions to prevent the drain of money from India to any extensive extent, particularly under existing circumstances.

THE PEERAGE OF IRELAND—PROOF OF RIGHT TO VOTE.—RESOLUTIONS.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR THE LORD CHANCELLOR rose, pursuant to notice, to move a Resolution with respect to the petitions of peers claiming a right to vote at the election of representative peers for Ireland, and said that in those cases in which the heir to a peerage in this country applied for a writ to enable him to take his seat in their Lordships' House, the course taken was simply to apply—nominally to the Crown, but, practically speaking, to the Lord Chancellor, who merely required that evidence of the marriage of the parents of the applicant should be produced, the expense of the whole proceeding amounting to from £5 to £10 only. When, however, a person succeeded to an Irish peerage, and claimed, not a seat in that House, but merely to have a record made of his right to vote at the election of representative Peers for Ireland, he had to pay, instead of £5 or £10, a sum amounting to between £100 and £150. That was a state of things which, in his opinion, called for a remedy, and the Select Committee which had last year sat to consider the subject had recommended that a measure should be introduced to Parliament with the view of removing the hardship to which he referred. He, however, having directed his attention to the matter, had come to the conclusion that it was not necessary to resort to legislation in order to accomplish that object. The matter was entirely within their Lordships' power. By the Act of Union all questions affecting the right to vote at elections of Irish Peers were to be decided by the House of Lords, and Orders of the House were drawn up at the time to govern the proceedings. A petition was presented; that petition was referred to a Committee of Privileges, and on that Committee it was usual for them to hear the party and his evidence by counsel at the bar. The consequence of that was, that very great expense was unnecessarily incurred. In ordinary cases there would be no more difficulty in determining who was the heir in the case of a claim to vote for a representative Peer than there would be in determining the heir of an English Peer who had the hereditary right to a seat it that House, and he thought that it would be desirable to assimilate the procedure in the two cases. The noble and learned Lord concluded by moving the following Resolution:—
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"That all Petitions claiming a Right to Vote at the Election of Representative Peers for Ireland, by virtue of Peerages under which a Right to vote has been admitted by the House of Lords of the United Kingdom, be referred to The Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper of the Great Seal to consider and report thereupon; and The Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper is upon such Reference to consider the Matter of the said Petition, and to make his Report thereupon to the House.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMOREcomplained of the burdens imposed upon the Irish Peers, and supported the Resolution.
LORD REDESDALEsaid, he thought that Legislative authority was necessary. The Act of Union directed that the claim should be decided by a Committee of Privileges, and did not contemplate the delegation of such a power to an individual, not even to the Lord Chancellor; and, by adopting this Resolution great difficulty would arise, and a most dangerous precedent be set. The matter ought to be referred to a Committee of Privileges, which, in fact, was the whole House, with this difference, that while three Members formed a House, seven Members were necessary to form a Committee of Privileges.
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that he did not propose that the House should be bound by the Report of the Lord Chancellor; the House could come to such conclusion as it might think fit.
On Question, Resolved in the affirmative; and the said Resolution ordered to be added to the Roll of Standing Orders.

MURDER OF MR. PRICE AT MELBOURNE.

  ADDRESS FOR CORRESPONDENCE.
  EARL TALBOT EARL TALBOT rose to move for correspondence relative to the murder of the late Mr. John Price, of Melbourne, Inspector of Convicts. He wished to call attention to this disgraceful and diabolical murder of a near relative of his. It was not necessary for him to go into the harrowing details of this barbarous transaction, but it would suffice to say that Mr. Price was in the execution of his duty among the convicts when they rose and literally stoned him to death, and made an attempt to do the same to the other officers present. It was, no doubt, the result of a plan and combination, and there was every reason to suppose that the plan was devised in consequence of a false and morbid sympathy out of doors for the persons who had murdered Mr. Melville, and who were acquitted on a point of law. He had a report of the inquest on Mr.

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  Price, which showed that there was a morbid sympathy for criminals in the colony, which required to be inquired into, and if possible put a stop to. The jury returned a verdict of wilful murder against fifteen of the prisoners, and they added, "that, in their opinion, one cause of the occurrence was the misplaced sympathy of the public for the persons in the case alluded to, which by some means had become known to the convicts, and had caused a spirit of insubordination to arise among them since the trial of the murderers of William Melville, in November last." Now, he (Earl Talbot) would venture to think that this was a subject which ought to be investigated by the Executive Government. Those convicts were sent out under sentence for heinous crimes, and it was the duty of the Executive Government to see that they were properly guarded, and kept from contact with the public out of doors, and free from those influences which had led to this catastrophy. Mr. Price's character was unimpeachable, and during the time he was an Inspector of Convicts in Norfolk Island he did his duty with equal kindness and firmness, and when the convicts were removed from that place the same duties were imposed upon him at Melbourne as he formerly discharged at Norfolk Island. He would read an extract from a Melbourne paper, which would give the House some notion of the feeling on the subject in the colony. The noble Earl read an extract, to the effect "that an attempt had been made by a party of long-sentence convicts to escape, in resisting which Mr. Price fell; insubordination was now the rule in the hulks; the convicts defied their custodians, and had got among them a copy of a report of a meeting of the citizens' committee, a self constituted body, at which Mr. Price was held up as a cruel, inhuman monster, and it had become the prison talk that the ruffians who murdered Mr. Melville had been acquitted; and these things having found their way into the hulks had produced such effects that the convicts were in a state of insubordination, under the belief that they had with them the sympathy of the public outside." At the inquest, Captain Blanchard, in his evidence, said, "that Mr. Price's manner was kind and almost fatherly; that since Mr. Melville's case his difficulties had increased; he had lost his control over the men, and yet he had to go among them; the sympathy of the press and the public had
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  had a great effect on the men, and when Mr. Price refused them a request, it was always done kindly." The officers were unarmed, and the reason given for this was, that as there were only twelve or thirteen men to control 150 or 160 of these desperate ruffians, they were afraid that if they carried arms the convicts would seize them and turn them against themselves. It seemed that newspapers were allowed to get among the convicts. He thought he had said enough to prove that this was a case worthy of their attention, and he hoped that the Government would, not only for the sake of the Imperial Government, but for the sake of his lamented departed relative, take some steps to control those dastardly ruffians. He hoped they would lay on the table any correspondence relating to the matter which was in their possession, and give an assurance that the matter should be inquired into, and justice done to the memory of his lamented friend. He had heard that the Colonial Legislature had made a provision for Mr. Price's widow and orphans; and he had an additional claim on the sympathy of this country, as he had married a near relative of Sir John Franklin.
  Moved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for Correspondence relative to the Murder of the late Mr. John Price, of Melbourne, Inspector of Convicts.
  EARL GRANVILLEsaid, the noble Earl had justly characterized this case as a most diabolical outrage, and Her Majesty's Government would make every inquiry into the subject. He would be ready to lay the correspondence on the table.
  Motion agreed to.

TRANSFER OF REAL PROPERTY.

  MR. FAWCETTE'S PETITION.
  LORD BROUGHAM LORD BROUGHAM rose to call the attention of the House to Mr. Fawcette's petition, presented on the 12th of June, and to beg the attention of their Lordships to the great difficulty and ruinous expense attendant on the practice of the law relating to the transfer of real property. Ten days ago he presented that petition from his learned and able friend, who had been many years a conveyancer of great eminence, was now a magistrate of the county of Cumberland, and who, with the late Mr. Aglionby, had prepared the Sum-

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  mary Jurisdiction Bill, which had effected so great an improvement in our criminal law. Their Lordships might recollect that he (Lord Brougham), in presenting the Carlisle petition, declined to bring in the Bill, conceiving it should originate in the Commons. Mr. Fawcette, in his present petition, addressed that House on the subject of the great grievance which landed proprietors and persons who wished to become purchasers of land suffered, owing to the state of the law and practice relating to the conveyance and transfer of real property. Mr. Fawcette stated, in support of a plan he proposed for a change in the law of real property, and particularly of registration of titles, his own experience as steward of a manor. He said that he had been for thirty years steward of one of the largest manors in England, containing some 400 or 500 tenements; during his stewardship nearly every tenement had been transferred by sale, or exchange, or death; and in every case the transfer was effected by means of a deed which contained on an average only 190 words; that there was no description of the parcels, except the number of the tenement in the manor book, and where it was situated; and never during the thirty years he was steward of that manor had any question of boundary, or identity of the parcels arisen; while the expense of the transfer amounted to—what would their Lordships think, who were constrained to pay for the transfer of one acre or a thousand acres £700 or 800? Why, to 7s. He did not mean to say that the expense of inquiry into title would ever be so small in the whole system of transfer of land; but he did say that this proved, at the very least, that a great and salutary change might be made in the law with respect to the conveyance of real property. The Master of the Rolls in Ireland had said, in his evidence before the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the state of the law of real property, that our system of conveyancing, and, indeed, our whole law relative to the transfer of real property, was one which might have been devised expressly for the purpose of rendering land as little an article of commerce and as little vendible and purchaseable as possible. The Legislature, the Courts, and the lawyers had created the system. [A Noble LORD: And the Attorneys.] His noble Friend said, that he ought not to forget the attorneys; he had included them among the lawyers. After the subject
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  had been mooted in the other House, Bills were sent down from their Lordships' in 1852 and 1853, to that House, and were referred to a Select Committee. The result was a recommendation of the appointment of a Commission of learned lawyers, with some laymen, to inquire into the whole question connected with the conveyance of land. A Commission was accordingly appointed, and made a report, containing most valuable information and a number of most useful suggestions. Nothing could be worse than the present state of the law on this subject. Land, instead of being as easily transferable as bank-stock, was, owing to the principle and practice of our law, the most difficult article of transfer. In fact, it was in some cases actually impossible to transfer it. He, therefore, heartily rejoiced to hear that the Commission had recommended the introduction of two most important measures with respect to this subject, and he hoped his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack would comfort the House by letting them know that these measures were not only in the course of preparation, but were in a forward state. It was most judicious of the Commissioners to recommend that along with a measure for the registration of titles, there should also be a measure for the improvement of the law respecting the conveyance of laud. Generally speaking, these important measures would meet with no great opposition, There might be some difficulty with respect to the registration of titles, from the want of the proper charts and maps. The Select Committee of their Lordships to whom the subject of registration was referred some years ago, had found that a great difficulty. But the Tithe Commissioners possessed a great body of maps and charts, as did the municipal corporations; so that he would fain hope there might be found a sufficient body of maps and charts to render legislation possible. He begged to direct their Lordships' attention to the working of the Encumbered Estates Court in Ireland, which had done so much good in that country—a point on which he had been mistaken when he at first supposed that it would not lead to beneficial results. In the period of five years ending in 1854, no fewer than 2,400 cases were tried and disposed of by that court. Of these 1,448 terminated in sale, and the value of the property sold amounted to £14,133,000. Great advantages were derived in Ireland from that court. In the first place, there was the excellent and indefeasible Parlia-

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  mentary title to land which it afforded; then there was the cost of proceeding which was exceedingly light; but if it had been much larger, it would have been as nothing compared with the incalculable advantages obtained under the Act. So much were these advantages appreciated, that in many instances frauds were committed, in order to bring property under the operation of the Act. Perhaps they might be called pious frauds, though on that point he was not called to give an opinion; at the same time he might say, that as he did not believe there was such a thing as a white lie, so neither did he believe there could be a pious fraud. But, at any rate, frauds were committed. People trumped up debts—signed bills, for example, when there were no transactions, and made it appear that there were incumbrances on property, so as to enable them to come within the scope and the advantages of the Incumbered Estates Court. Now, why should inestimable benefits like these be confined to incumbered estates? Why should not the owners of unincumbered estates have similar benefits? The Commissioners on the law of real property had expressed an opinion in favour of the extension of the principle of the system of the Incumbered Estates Court, so that there might be some such court for the transfer of all property; and it was suggested that it ought to be done by an improvement in the procedure of the Court of Chancery. He thought the Commissioners were well advised in saying that some such system should be adopted in this country, though on the manner of making it there might be differences of opinion. The course recommended by the Commissioners was, that two Bills should be prepared, one for the improvement of the law on the transfer of land, and one for the establishment of a system of registration of titles. Whether we should ever get the benefit of a Parliamentary title to estates he could not say; but he had great hopes that, to a certain extent, this would he effected, and that there would be some statutory guarantee of title to land. The proposal of the Commissioners was, that as by the Acts passed many years ago an indefeasible title is given to all land purchased and sold under the Ordnance Department, compensation being given if within a certain period a claim was put forward for the land, the same principle might be applied generally. In other countries great facilities are given for land
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  transfer, and he saw no reason why they should not go across the Channel to France for an example of legislation on this point. In that country the period of "limitation," as it was called, was ten years, whereas in our own country, it was thirty, and in many cases forty years. It was no doubt invidious to be asked to copy foreign institutions, but when those institutions were found to have produced great good, as the laws regulating the transfer of land in Ireland, in France, Belgium, and America had done, it would be most unwise not to avail ourselves of the examples which those countries afforded. He hoped the noble and learned Lord on the woolsack would be able to assure the House that Bills upon this subject were in a forward state, and would be speedily laid before Parliament. He would only add, that it was of the greatest importance that those who were intrusted, not only with the examination of titles to property, but who were to act as officers of courts where such titles might come in question, should possess a complete and accurate knowledge of their profession, and therefore he trusted that the Inns of Court would see the necessity of requiring all persons to undergo a compulsory examination before being called to the bar.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, he would admit that the subject introduced by the noble and learned Lord was both difficult and important. One of his first acts after he received the Great Seal at the beginning of 1853 was to ask their Lordships' sanction to a measure for facilitating the transfer of real property by establishing an effectual system of registration. That Bill, as his noble and learned Friend had said, was passed by their Lordships and sent down to the House of Commons; but in consequence of objections raised against it there it had not become law. The subject was referred by the House of Commons to a Committee, and they recommended that a Royal Commission should issue to consider the existing state of the Law, and to report their opinion as to what alteration was necessary. Towards the end of the same year that Commission was accordingly appointed, and the difficulty, as well as the importance of the subject might be inferred from the fact that though the Commissioners were not idle, they were occupied the whole of the years 1854, 1855, and 1856, and part of 1857, before they were able to make any Report satisfactory to themselves. Pending that Commission, and

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  until he knew what they might recommend, he did not think it would have been proper for him to originate any measure. Nevertheless, in consequence of the length of time that elapsed before that Report was prepared, at the close of last year, he had prepared a measure which he thought could not possibly be at variance with the recommendations which the Commissioners might make, while, of itself, he believed the measure would be attended with great public benefit. That Bill he should soon be in a position to lay on their Lordships' table, and he would, with their permission, briefly explain its outline. One of the greatest sources of complication in reference to the transfer of real property was the mode in which mortgages, judgments, and other charges were dealt with. He proposed that when mortgages and judgments were given as securities charged upon real estate, the present complicated mode of procedure should cease; that any party being possessed of real property might charge upon it £5,000, £10,000, or any other sum; and instead of the instrument by which the charge was imposed, containing all the complicated provisions relating to power of sale, power of appointing receivers, and other matters, he proposed to enact that the mere charging of the land should carry with it as incidents all those provisions which were usually inserted in mortgages, and charges of a similar nature. He proposed, also, that there should be a register in the Court of Common Pleas of all such mortgages and charges, which would show at once whether the property was incumbered or not, and any one who proposed to purchase or lend money on land might ascertain exactly what charges were upon it. Considering the various uses to which real property was applied—as a future provision for families, marriage settlements, and other purposes—it was in vain to expect that they could ever make the transfer of such property as easy as the transfer of Bank stock; but at the same time there could be no question that the law in this respect might be materially improved. He pledged himself that during the recess the subject should receive full attention from the Government, and if, by the plan recommended by the Commission or by any other means, he could see his way to a real improvement, he should be prepared to introduce some measure for the purpose of carrying it out.
  LORD CAMPBELLexpressed his earn-
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  est hope that the law respecting the transfer of real property might be improved, and that it admitted of improvement there could be no doubt. He had hoped for some years that he should go down to posterity as the author of a general measure for the registration of real property; but that hope, like many others, was destined to disappointment. He was glad, however, to find that the cause had not been abandoned, and he should be most willing to lend his aid in carrying out such an improvement as that which had been suggested by his noble and learned Friend. Another improvement he had taken much interest in was the compulsory examination of students for the bar, and that also he hoped yet to see carried out.
  EARL FITZWILLIAMsuggested that in any measure that might be enacted for establishing a new and more simple form of conveyance, not only should the new form be made legal, but the old form declared to be illegal. The certainty that the old form would not be recognized in law, would induce people generally to adopt the new form. He trusted also that no system of registration would be established that would afford facilities for gratifying mere curiosity.

SALE OF OBSCENE BOOKS, &c., PREVENTION BILL.

  COMMITTEE.
  Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
  LORD CAMPBELL,in moving that the House go into Committee upon the Bill, said, he was sorry he could not meet the convenience of some of their Lordships by postponing the Committee on this Bill, but he felt he would be guilty of a dereliction of duty if he were to do so; for, unless he pushed forward the Bill that evening, he would be unable to carry a measure that Session which he believed to be urgently demanded. On the occasion of his moving the second reading of the Bill, he was so much surprised by some of the criticisms that he had to encounter that he had made up his mind to abandon it altogether; but since then he had received such strong solicitations to proceed from various Members of that House, from clergymen of all denominations, from many medical men, from fathers of families, and from young men who themselves had been inveigled into those receptacles of abomination against which his Bill was directed, and

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  had suffered most lamentably from that catastrophe, that he thought it his duty to persevere; and he had the hope that from the alterations in the Bill which he would shortly state to their Lordships, it would not meet with further opposition. He was sure that the Bill was opposed in the first instance only from a misapprehension of its object. He had no desire whatever to interfere by legislation with books, or pictures, or prints, such as were described to their Lordships the other evening as being endangered by this measure. The keeping, or the reading, or the delighting in such things must be left to taste, and was not a subject for legal interference; but when there were people who designedly and industriously manufactured books and prints with the intention of corrupting the public morals, and when they succeeded in their infamous purpose, he thought it was necessary for the Legislature to interpose and to save the public from the contamination to which they would otherwise be exposed. He now knew more certainly than he did before, that there were receptacles for the sale and exhibition of these abominable books and prints, which had the most lamentable effect, and which the law as it stood at present was altogether insufficient to put down. An indictment might be preferred, and a conviction obtained, but after the conviction the sale from the very same shop, by reason of the advertisement which the indictment published to the world, was more rapid and more fatal than before; and the only chance of putting an end to these abominations was to give a right—with all proper limitations, so that there should be no danger of abuse—to search the deposits of objectionable books and prints, to seize them, and to burn or otherwise destroy them. He knew that such receptacles did exist, and he was convinced that they could be readily reached if the proposed power were given, and that his measure would work easily and be most effectual. He did not wish to create any new offence, but to leave the common law—by which it was a misdemeanour to publish such abominable books or prints—as it stood—the object being to give facilities for seizing obscene publications and destroying them. He had already explained to their Lordships the stringent powers which existed with respect to gambling houses; and Customs' officers, under the powers they possessed, had repeatedly seized large importations of indecent books and prints; but in Holy well-street the keepers
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  of these abominable publications set decency and law at defiance. If there were the same powers of searching for these books as for "uncustomed goods," or as in gambling houses for dice and cards, the public might be relieved from these contaminations. Having been very ably assisted, he had introduced some modifications into the Bill, so as to prevent its being obnoxious to any objection. The operative part consisted of two clauses: one was to empower justices of the peace, upon an affidavit being made that there was reason to suspect that these publications were kept in a house for sale and exhibition, to grant a warrant for searching; the other clause empowered the Chief Commissioner of Police, where he had reasonable information that these books were kept, to grant a warrant of the same kind. He believed that the liberties of the subject would be in no danger if Sir Richard Mayne had the same power which was possessed by the head of the police in every capital in Europe. That power had, however, been objected to, and he had been obliged to abandon this provision, which he did on the principle that half a loaf was better than no bread. Into the other clause he had introduced modifications which he believed to be unnecessary, but which would be harmless. The Bill, as it originally stood, only required an affidavit that the person making it had reasonable ground to suspect that these books were kept for sale and exhibition. The Bill as now amended, required that the complainant should swear that he had reason to believe, and did believe, that these books or prints were kept in store for sale or exhibition. Another Amendment enacted that the complainant should set forth the facts on which he entertained that belief, and if the justice were satisfied on these facts that the books and prints were kept as alleged, he might issue his search-warrant, with this additional guard—that he must be satisfied they were such books and prints as that their publication would constitute a misdemeanour by the common law. There was also this further security, that the magistrate must not only be satisfied that the publication of these books and prints was a misdemeanour, but a misdemeanour which ought to be prosecuted by indictment. He had been asked what he proposed to do with these indecent publications, and he therefore proposed that after condemnation they should be burnt or

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  otherwise destroyed. He would not enter into details of the appalling extent to which the sale of these publications was carried, but would move that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee on the said Bill.
  Motion agreed to. House in Committee accordingly.
  LORD CAMPBELLsaid, he would ask their Lordships to agree to the clauses pro formâ, in order that the Amendments he had made might be printed.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsuggested that the Bill should make it an indictable offence against the party in whose possession these books and prints were discovered, if a jury found that they were kept for sale.
  LORD CAMPBELLsaid, it had been held by the Court of Queen's Bench that it was an indictable offence to procure these books and prints for circulation, just as it was an offence to procure false coin for circulation. He therefore held it unnecessary to introduce such a provision; but if his noble and learned Friend thought otherwise he had no objection to adopt the suggestion.
  Amendments made: the Report thereof to be received on Monday next.
  House adjourned at a Quarter past Seven o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.