Lords Sitting of 16 February 1857

MINUTE.
PUBLIC BILL.—1a Judicial Statistics.
JUDICIAL STATISTICS BILL.

  BILL PRESENTED. FIRST READING.
  LORD BROUGHAMsaid, he was about to present a Bill similar to one which he had laid before their Lordships last year, combined with a large number of schedules, a Bill for facilitating the collection of Judicial Statistics. He had upon a former occasion entered fully into a consideration of the incalculable benefits that would be derived from a good system of judicial statistics, and had shown that not only was this country in that respect behind France, Belgium, and Germany, but was even behind Naples. Until some system was adopted we should be legislating in the dark in all matters relating to legal enactments and legal procedure; and until such a system was adopted legislation in matters of law could not be called an inductive science, for they were labouring in the dark, without any knowledge of the effects of existing laws or the consequences of any changes in those laws. We had no means whatever of ascertaining the
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  practical working of a law that was passed. The Bill he now presented was exceedingly short, and he hoped before the second reading the schedules, which had undergone revision, correction, and improvement by the Law Amendment Society, would be perfected, and that he should be enabled to lay before the House a complete set of schedules, which would leave nothing to be desired by the department entrusted with the collection and arrangement of those important details. The noble and learned Lord concluded by presenting a Bill to provide for collection of judicial statistics.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORobserved that the subject had been under the consideration of the Government during the recess. No doubt, returns showing the amount of business done, the salaries paid, and other facts relating to the various courts, would be of great use.
  Bill read 1a

THE WAR WITH PERSIA—

  MOTION POSTPONED.
  THE EARL OF CLARENDON: My noble Friend behind me (the Earl of Albemarle) having a notice on the paper which has reference to Persia, I venture to appeal to him to have the goodness to put off his Motion for a short time, as at the present moment negotiations are pending in Paris upon the dispute with Persia, and any discussion at the present moment might have a tendency to prejudice those negotiations. Only this very morning I received a communication which leads me to hope that those negotiations will be brought to a successful issue. I hope, therefore, my noble Friend will not consider me asking too much in begging of him to defer his Motion.
  THE EARL OF ALBEMARLEsaid, after the appeal which had been made to him by the noble Friend he should have no hesitation in withdrawing for the present the Motion which it had been his intention to bring forward. It would certainly have been his wish, in moving for the Returns in question, to have avoided as much as possible any observations on the present hostilities with Persia. His noble Friend said that in a few clays the time would, perhaps, have arrived when such a Motion might be brought forward without the probability of harm, and that being so he (the Earl of Albemarle) hoped then to have an opportunity of recurring to the subject. He would only now say that, in

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  his opinion, the only way of preserving friendship with Persia would be to do away with all diplomatic relations with that country.

RESOLUTION ON PRIVATE BILLS— CASE OF MR. SHEDDEN.

  QUESTION.
  LORD BROUGHAMsaid, he wished to put a question to his noble Friend the Chairman of Committees (Lord Redesdale). He understood that by the Resolution which his noble Friend was about to propose, the 23rd March was fixed as the last day on which that House would receive petitions for private Bills that Session. Now, he had an appeal to make to his noble Friend to relax the strict rule in that respect with reference to one or two cases of some urgency which it was highly expedient should be brought under their Lordships' consideration this Session, especially that of Mr. Shedden. That was a question of title to an estate, tried in Scotland nearly fifty years ago, and subsequently reviewed by the House of Lords during the Chancellorship of Lord Eldon, on both which occasions he (Lord Brougham) acted as counsel for Mr. William Shedden, the claimant. Without going now into the merits of the case, he would only say that there were circumstances connected with it of such a peculiar character as, in his opinion, imperatively to require that it should be reopened in some shape before their Lordships' House with the view of justice being done to the unhappy gentleman, Mr. W. Shedden, whom he represented, and who had suffered a grievous wrong for nearly sixty years. Mr. Shedden would probably bring his case under the consideration of the House in the form of a private Bill; but as, unless a relaxation were made in the rule of the House, he should not be able to do so until his (Lord Brougham's) return from a necessary absence of some weeks in the country, he should be obliged if his noble and learned Friend (Lord Redesdale) would make the case an exception and suspend the forms of the House in its favour, as it was one in which he (Lord Brougham) took an especial interest.
  LORD REDESDALEsaid, the 23rd of March was the day fixed as that beyond which no private Bill could be introduced to the House; and, although he wished to adhere to that rule as far as possible, yet, as the case to which his noble and learned Friend had referred was one of a peculiar
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  character, he should offer no objection to it on the score of time, after the appeal made by his noble and learned Friend.
  LORD BROUGHAMsaid, nothing could be more considerate than the prompt manner in which his noble and learned Friend had yielded to his request, and he was convinced that when their Lordships came to hear the case of Mr. Shedden, whatever appearance of difficulty there might be about it, they would devise a remedy, however long that might have been delayed, for the injustice which he believed to have been perpetrated.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, without meaning to interpose any obstacle in the way of the forms of the House being relaxed for the accommodation of this particular case, he would only remark that the parties whom it was now sought to oust from the estate in this case had been in possession of it for, he believed, sixty years, and if their Lordships at this distance of time reopened a question of this kind, the title of not one of the Members of their Lordships' House to his estate would afterwards be free from some similar attempt to question its legality.
  LORD REDESDALEsaid, the remark of his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack would be quite true in reference to an ordinary case; but there were peculiar circumstances about this which appeared to make it an exception.
  EARL GREYsaid, he was about to present a petition to the House on behalf of Mr. William Shedden, and should have done so this week had it not been for the intended absence of his noble and learned Friend (Lord Brougham), who had explained to their Lordships the great personal interest he took in the case. He (Earl Grey) would ask their Lordships in the meantime to suspend their judgment until the facts were before them, which he thought were such as to prove to them that injustice had been done, and that it demanded a remedy.

THE SHEEPSHANKS COLLECTION OF PICTURES.

  MOTION FOR CORRESPONDENCE.
  LORD MONTEAGLE,in moving for certain correspondence between the Government and Mr. Sheepshanks in reference to his gift of pictures to the nation, said he would remind their Lordships that it had been his duty in 1848 to call their attention to the magnificent gift of pictures which the late Mr. Vernon made to the

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  country. Since that time we had received several other donations of that kind, and those had been very recently supplemented by the generous offer of the noble collection which was the subject of his present Motion. He did not think those liberal gifts from private parties had been received either by the public or by Parliament quite in the grateful spirit which might have been expected, or which such acts of munificence deserved. The generosity of individual parties had greatly outrun the liberality of Parliament. The question of a national collection of pictures had never received any attention until the year 1824, when it was, he believed, first raised by his late Friend, Lord Dover. It was next brought forward on the part of Lord Liverpool's Government by Lord Farnborough. He should add, that the most strenuous supporter of these attempts was the late Mr. Hume. Austere as were Mr. Hume's principles on questions of economy, no one was less disposed to parsimony when questions of improving the intellect, and he would add, the taste and the innocent pleasures of the people were concerned. Mr. Hume on the 2nd April, 1823, observed, "It was at last determined to form a National Gallery and by so doing to rescue the country from a disgrace which the want of such an establishment had long entailed upon it." Since then we had gone on languidly at intervals, sometimes allowing good pictures to escape us, and sometimes, though he believed very rarely, purchasing indifferent ones; he believed that the mistakes of that description were by no means numerous. Now, however, we had a very fine collection; but he belived the public were not quite in possession of the facts as to how it had been got together, for both in that and the other House of Parliament he had heard the collection discussed as if it were mainly or altogether the creation of the State, and principally purchased out of the national resources; whereas, in point of fact, we were indebted for it much more to the generosity and public spirit of private individuals than to any liberality which Parliament had shown in the matter. He had in his hand an account of the national collection from 1824 down to the present time. From 1824 to 1833 the number of pictures purchased by the State for the National Gallery in Trafalgar Square was 42, and the number presented to it by private individuals was 68; from 1834 to 1843 the number added by the State was 15, and by private individuals
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  63; from 1844 to 1853, 17 were bought by the State and 188 presented by private individuals; and from 1854 to 1856, 36 were given by the State and 114 by private individuals. In other words, from 1824 to 1856, 112 pictures were purchased for the National Gallery by the State and 433 were the gifts of private individuals. The special gifts of pictures to the nation included 16 by Sir George Beaumont, 6 by William the Fourth, 35 by the Rev. W. H. Carr, 15 by Lord Farnborough, 8 by his late valued Friend Lord Colborne, 3 by Mr. Samuel Rogers, and 156 by Mr. Vernon. The pictures included in the Vernon Gallery were peculiarly valuable, because the trustees of the National Gallery considered themselves precluded from purchasing modern pictures, and therefore no specimens of the artists of our own country had been added to the collection by the State. This example had been followed. Since Mr. Vernon's gift, the nation had received a most splendid bequest from the late Mr. Turner. Of the pictures left by that artist 100 were entirely finished, and 182, not less important and in some respects more instructive, were unfinished and in progress; but, perhaps, the most valuable of all were 18,749 exquisite drawings and sketches. From this mere recital of the numbers of these works of art, their value might be estimated. Within a very short time the nation had been offered another splendid gift, perhaps deriving additional value from the fact of its being made in the lifetime of the collector. Mr. Sheepshanks, who was known to many of their Lordships as a collector and a man of taste, and distinguished also, he might add as the brother of one of the most eminent men of Science in our time, had offered to give to his country his magnificent collection of 233 pictures and 103 drawings and sketches. So that from these three last named individuals the nation had received 19,823 works of art, far exceeding in number all which had been purchased by the Government with the large means at their disposal. He hoped there would be no hesitation in undertaking to comply with the conditions attached by the donor to his noble gift. He remembered that in the case of tire Dulwich collection, Mr. Vansittart, on the part of the Government of the day, refused to accept that gift from Sir Francis Bourgeois, on the ground that the Government were not prepared to vote the money for the construction of a suitable

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  room. Those days were, he trusted, gone by, and he hoped he should hear from his noble Friend (Lord Stanley of Alderley) that Mr. Sheepshanks' splendid gift had been respectfully and gratefully accepted, subject to the conditions attached to it by the donor. He begged to move that there be laid before this House a Copy of any Correspondence between Her Majesty's Government and Mr. Sheepshanks respecting the Gift of his Collection of Pictures to the Nation.
  LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEYsaid, he held in his hand Mr. Sheepshanks' deed of gift and the acknowledgment on the part of the Government of that noble gift. The donor, of whom it was impossible to speak in too high terms, was well known to most of their Lordships as having been engaged, during a life of no short duration, in collecting some of the choicest specimens of British art; and now, wishing himself to see them placed in a situation where they might prove more extensively useful, and not waiting until death had removed him from the scene, he had offered them to the nation. Mr. Sheepshanks had naturally attached some conditions to his donation. In the first place, it was his opinion that, for the purpose of establishing a National Gallery of British art, it was desirable that his collection should be placed in a situation where it would be generally accessible to the public, without being interfered with by the noise or injured by the dirt of the metropolis, and that it should also be in immediate connection with those schools of art, where he thought it was calculated to prove of great advantage. Mr. Sheepshanks also desired that the superintendence and management of this collection should be vested in a Minister of the Crown, who should be solely responsible, and not placed in the hands of any body of managers or trustees, who he thought might not be so directly amenable to public opinion for its proper administration as a Minister of the Crown. The person selected as the First Trustee, and who for the time being was to have the custody and management of the collection, was the head of the Department of Art Education in this country. Up to the present moment the task had fallen upon him (Lord Stanley of Alderley) as being the head of the office to which the Department of Science and Art belonged; but it would shortly be transferred into the much more worthy hands of his noble Friend the
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  Lord President of the Council, in his capacity of President of the Board of National Education. Another condition annexed to the gift was that a suitable building, well-lighted, airy, and commodious, should be erected to receive it, situated in the ground at Kensington purchased by the Commission of 1851, and upon which had been erected the Schools of Art formerly located at Marlborough House. Mr. Sheepshanks wished that, in the first instance, his pictures should be more especially used for the promotion of art in these schools. Next, he wished, if the responsible Minister thought fit, that portions of the collection should be sent into the provinces for exhibition there as examples of art. Then the collection was to be thrown open to the public at convenient times, subject to the conditions stated. Mr. Sheepshanks also expressed an earnest desire (though this was not made a condition of the gift) that the gallery should be open on Sunday evenings, for the inspection of the working classes, who during the week had not the opportunity of visiting such places. These, then, were simply the conditions attached by Mr. Sheepshanks to his munificent present. If the Government should think proper to accept it on such conditions, he made it over to the nation with no reservations—nay, even with the express desire on his part that it might not form an exclusive gallery, separate from other pictures of which the State might become possessed, but that it should form the nucleus of a great collection of British art, and he did not wish that his name should be at all connected with it. In making this donation, Mr. Sheepshanks desires to offer his testimony to the advantage which had resulted from that Department of Art which originated in the Exhibition of 1851. In his opinion, this department had conferred great benefits upon this country, and would, if properly encouraged and promoted, be productive of still greater advantages. In this opinion he (Lord Stanley) entirely concurred and even in a purely material point of view, and looking only to the commercial advantages derived by this country, he already saw great advantage from the existence of such a department. With regard to material fabrics and cheapness of production, England had for a long time borne off the palm, but it could not be concealed that in correctness of taste and design we had fallen short of many other countries. He believed this might in a great measure be traced to the

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  absence of opportunities enjoyed by the people and the working classes for instruction in the true principles of art, and from ready access to collections of the best works of great artists of the past and present time. He was happy to say that there was a growing disposition on the part of the public to avail themselves of the schools of art lately established throughout the country, that they derived great advantage thereby, and that there was hardly an artisan or mechanic who did not at once recognise the benefits resulting from the instruction imparted. He thought it right incidentally to allude to these points, as they formed part of the motives which had induced Mr. Sheepshanks to make this gift to the nation. Before concluding he felt bound to express the admiration of the Government at the patriotism and munificence of gifts of such a character; and he trusted that such a course might find many imitators, when it was seen that pictures so presented to the nation were placed in buildings proper and suitable for their exhibition, thereby declaring the value and appreciation which the Government and country attached to such gifts. The noble Lord concluded by presenting—
  "Copy of Deed of Gift by John Sheepshanks, Esq., of his Collection of Pictures and Drawings, in Trust, to form the Nucleus of a National Gallery of Art in connection with Her Majesty's Department of Science and Art: And also,
  "Copy of a Minute of the President of the Board of Trade."
  Ordered to lie on the Table.

THE YEOMANRY.

  ADDRESS FOR RETURNS.
  THE EARL OF POWIS THE EARL OF POWIS moved—
  "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for a Return, showing the Years since 1815, in which the Yeomanry have not been assembled either for permanent Duty or training and Exercise; and also, Copy of any Circular from the Secretary of State to the Lords' Lieutenant of Counties as to the assembling of the Yeomanry during the present year."
  He had brought the matter forward by this Motion, because he wished to call the attention of the noble Lord the Secretary for War (Lord Panmure) to the fact, that it was impossible for the yeomanry to be in an efficient state of discipline, if they were not sufficiently often assembled for exercise and training. The nominal time of exercise was at present eight days; of this, one day was occupying in coming, another
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  in going; then there was the review-day, and in the rest there was the Sunday—thus, in fact, there remained but four days of actual use. He thought that no one could dissent from him when he said that four days in two years was not a period of exercise and training sufficient to preserve the discipline and efficiency of a regiment of yeomanry, and they were consequently obliged to keep horses to enable them to perform their duties; those horses were not liable to duty if the corps was called out; now, he should like to know if any exemption would be made from that duty if a corps should not be called out for training? He could not conceive why this corps should not be called out during the present year, and he trusted that some explanation would be forthcoming on the subject. He observed also, that the Vote to be taken for the yeomanry in the other House was reduced from £88,000 to £77,000. What provision was there made for the exemption of this corps from the horse duty? Their Lordships well knew that every Member of the yeomanry was bound to assemble upon the requirement of the civil authorities and at any moment, and that attendance at such assemblage was enforceable by fine.
  LORD PANMUREsaid, that there would be no objection to the first Return moved for by the noble Earl, but it would not be possible to produce the circular referred to in the latter part of the Motion, as, in point of fact, no circular had been despatched. When he had a seat in the other House of Parliament, he had always resisted the annual attacks made upon that corps, and he had not changed the opinion which he had then so frequently expressed, that they were a most valuable corps, not only from the uses which might be made of it, but from its affording to the gentlemen of England the opportunity, of which they were always desirous of availing themselves, of being serviceable, both in peace and war, to their country. At the same time, he thought that the Government might, without infringing upon what was due to that corps, when they were informed by the reports which they received that the yeomanry were in a highly efficient state, dispense with calling them out for one year. As regarded the probability expressed by the noble Earl, of the yeomanry being called out in aid of the civil power and proving inefficient, he could only say, that he saw not the slightest prospect, judging from the present aspect

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  of things in the first place, and from the Police Act of last Session in the next, of their services or those of any military force being called for in aid of the civil power. With regard to the subject of a contingent allowance, in the case of their not being called out, for the horse duty, it was a subject to which he would give the most careful consideration.
  THE EARL OF EGLINTONregretted the course which the Government intended to adopt with regard to the yeomanry, as tending to impair their efficiency and discipline by depriving them of the advantage of drill and training. He also entirely disagreed with the noble Lord in thinking that the services of the yeomanry, in aid of the civil power, might not be required. In his own county, during the last year, the yeomanry were employed in preserving the peace of the county for six weeks, and they had most ably performed that duty; and he should be much grieved to see the efficiency of that corps deteriorate.
  VISCOUNT DUNGANNONsaid, that under the circumstances it was really wonderful to see the discipline of the yeomanry corps. Great improvement had been made in the corps; but if a year were allowed to expire, it would be sure to go back. He did not see that it followed that because there was a county police force, the yeomanry would never be wanted. There were disturbances from year to year. This had always been the case, and must be so again. If there was to be a force for the security of the country, it ought to be kept in a state of efficiency. It would be bad policy if, for the sake of a paltry economy, the yeomanry should be left without the small amount of training they now received. He hoped that Her Majesty's Government would reconsider the question, because it was most important to retain in every county a body of men who could be relied upon to maintain the laws. He quite concurred with the noble Earl who moved for the Returns, that it would be impossible to keep the corps in a state of efficiency if it were kept for a whole year out of practice. Very little time was allowed for practice, even as matters then stood.
  THE MARQUESS OF AYLESBURYhoped that the Government would reconsider this question. At present the yeomanry of his county were in a most efficient state; but bow could it continue so if there were no proper means either of clothing or paying the yeomanry?
  LORD WARDsaid, that he, also, was one of those who thought that the yeomanry corps was a most useful body, and essential to the due maintenance of order throughout the country. It seemed to be an impression among some noble Lords that the short period of training was of no use to the yeomanry; but if they could see the regiment with which he was connected on the first day of their exercise, and on the fifth they would speedily lose that idea. He took that opportunity of expressing a, hope that now the matter had been touched upon, the whole subject would be taken into the consideration of the Government.
  LORD LYTTELTONsaid, that he had heard with great surprise the opinion of the noble Lord the Minister for War, that the yeomanry were never likely to be called out in support of the civil power. If they were not wanted for that purpose, he could not see of what use they were. But he had been lord-lieutenant of a county for many years, and during that time he had often known the yeomanry called out. He could not tell for what other purpose it was wanted. He had not distinctly understood from the noble Lord whether the yeomanry were to be called out or not; and he should be glad of a more definite; answer. And if they were not to be called out, whether the Government had made any definite rule upon the subject? whether there were to be any periodical callings out of the yeomanry, or whether it was to be left in doubt from year to year?
  LORD PANMUREsaid, that with respect to the calling out of the militia, all he had said was that he hoped the time would never come when it would be called out in aid of the civil power; and he said that not only with regard to the militia, but also to other services of Her Majesty; and that he hoped the county police establishments would be a sufficient safeguard for the country. As to the years in which the militia would be called out, he had laid down no regular rule; but he hoped that next year there would be no more necessity for it than there was at present.
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONsaid, that less than the present amount of training would be a mere waste of money. So small an economy in the face of the large sums spent on the war was inconsistent. He did not see that the noble Lord had given any reason why the yeomanry should not be called out in the present year, for he thought that to deprive a yeomanry regiment of its drill for one year was, for

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  all practical purposes, to disorganise it for two or three years. He was glad, however, to hear that the contingent allowances were to be continued. They could not apply the same rule to the yeomanry as to the army. In the army they had strict discipline and plenty of money; in the yeomanry it was different, and those who entered the force did so from reasons either personal or local.
  EARL GRANVILLEsaid, that he felt some embarrassment in taking the subject from his noble Friend, but his position obliged him to state his views on the subject; besides which he held a commission in a distinguished regiment, commanded by a noble Lord not now in his place. As to the esprit de corps which had been alluded to, he had no doubt of it, from the sample which noble Lords had given tonight. Noble Lords, colonels of yeomanry, had risen to speak, whom he hoped that they should sometimes hear giving their opinions on other questions. He was anxious that no misapprehension should exist with respect to the decision of the Government to suspend the calling out of the yeomanry for the present year. That resolution had not been adopted as a permanent rule. The calling out of last year had showed that the force was in a high state of efficiency, while the country was in such a state of tranquillity that their services were not likely to be wanted, and there was every reason to hope that the purely civil force would be ample to meet any demands upon it. On the other hand, the country had made great sacrifices during the late war, and those sacrifices were not yet terminated; and that was a reason why no unnecessary expense should be incurred by calling out the yeomanry. It had been a precedent hitherto to allow a year to elapse between the callings-out of the militia, and if any year was to be chosen for that purpose, no year could be more convenient both with regard to economy and the public tranquillity than the present.
  After a few words from Lord DE TABLEY,
  EARL POWISobserved, as to the police in the counties, that no general police Bill had yet been passed, and in his own county no large police was kept up.
  Motion agreed to.

THE LAW OF LIBEL.

  OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD CAMPBELL,in presenting Petitions praying their Lordships to take into
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  consideration the present state of the law with reference to the publication in newspapers of reports of the proceedings at public meetings, and to consent to an alteration in that law, enacting that the publication of a fair and accurate report, without malice, of such proceedings should not subject the publisher to an action for libel, said—My Lords, this is a very important subject, and very well deserves the consideration of your Lordships sitting as a branch of the Legislature. There came before the Court of Queen's Bench last term, in the case of Davison v. Duncan, the question whether all the proceedings of all public meetings, when published bonâ fide, may be published without any danger of any legal proceedings, however much they may calumniate an individual and be injurious to private character. I and my brethren in that Court arrived, without the slightest hesitation, at the conclusion that, as the law of England now stands there is no such immunity. We were not at liberty to consider whether the privilege sought for ought to be given to the Press. It would have been a most monstrous usurpation if we had decided that the publication before us was not liable to an action; for it had been determined over and over again by our predecessors, by whose decisions we are bound, that if there be anything slanderous in a writing it is subject for an action, and that it is no justification to plead that the slanderous matter has been written or spoken by another person other than he who published it. Such is the law of England at present; and to call upon us to alter the law, if we think it wrong, would be as preposterous as to say that we are at liberty to set aside the law of primogeniture and divide the landed estate of a deceased person equally among all his children. We sit "jus dicere, non jus dare." Our duty is to administer the law, not to abolish or even amend it. When I had the honour to propose in this House a Bill which afterwards became law, and which effected a most material improvement in the law of libel, I submitted a clause very limited in its nature—for I was afraid to go very far—providing that any bonâ fide account of the proceedings of either House of Parliament should be privileged, and not subject to an action. I was unable to carry it; there was a majority against me, because it was said not only that the law gave no such privilege, but that it ought not to be given. After having failed as a Member

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  of this House to alter the law, it would have been a breach of my duty if, sitting as a Judge in a court of justice, I had declared the law to be contrary to what your Lordships had decided it to be. Your Lordships may reconsider that decision; and, in that case, if my proposal with respect to the proceedings of the two Houses should be again submitted, I shall be glad to give it my most ardent support. For it seems to me monstrous to say that if there be a bonâ fide report of a speech in Parliament published the publisher should be liable to an action. That is different from a case which occurred about fifty years ago, when a noble Earl in this House made a speech calumniating his steward, and published it himself. The publication in question led to an action, because it was not a bonâ fide account of the proceedings in this House, but was intended to calumniate a private individual; and such an action would continue to he available if the clause which I proposed were passed into a law to-morrow. But while, as far as the proceedings of the two Houses of Parliament are concerned, I would zealously support the extension of the privileges of the Press, I am not prepared to grant the same immunity to reports of the proceedings of all public meetings; because to say that the publication in newspapers of whatever is said at any public meeting, or at anything which may be called a public meeting, should be privileged would lead to very alarming consequences. It has been said that the person calumniated may bring an action against the man who makes the speech; but it must be remembered that a speech spoken is a smaller injury than one that is published and sent all over the world. Still I am not prepared to say that the liberty of publication should not be extended to all public meetings under certain limitations and restrictions; but I bold that it would be preposterous for the Judges sitting on the bench to legislate as well as to declare what the law of England is, and I hope that such a precedent will never be established in this country.
  House adjourned till To-morrow.