Lords Sitting of 25 July 1856

MINUTES.
Took the Oaths.—James Baron Wensleydale, having been created Baron Wensleydale of Walton.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Chancery Amendment; Chancery Registrars Office.
3° Burial-grounds (Ireland); Lunatic Asylums (Superannuations) (Ireland); Joint-stock Banks.

THE NEW PALACE AT WESTMINSTER— DECAY OF THE STONE-WORK—THE PATENT LAWS.
LORD LYNDHURST presented a, petition from Mr. John Benjamin Daines, of Argyll Street, Hanover Square, London, gentleman, the inventor of a solution for
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preventing the decomposition of stonework exposed to atmospheric action, praying for an inquiry into its efficacy, and if found successful, that their Lordships would accept the use of it for national purposes. The noble and learned Lord stated that some parts of the stonework of the Houses of Parliament were in a state of considerable decomposition, and that, two years ago, Sir Charles Barry permitted Mr. Daines to apply his solution to three portions of the building, covering altogether a surface of 1,400 square yards, Sir Charles having intimated to him that he could not give a certificate as to its merits until after the lapse of two years. That period had now expired, and Mr. Daines received yesterday from Sir Charles Barry a certificate stating that he was perfectly satisfied with the efficiency of the solution, and that it had not only preserved the stonework to which it had been applied, but had checked the decay in those portions where decomposition had commenced at the time of application. He therefore wished to know whether the Government would have any objection to appoint two or three of their Lordships for the purpose of investigating the subject? He also availed himself of that opportunity to ask the noble and learned Lord on the woolsack, whether it was the intention of the Government to introduce a measure with respect to the patent laws, which were now in a very unsatisfactory state?
THE LORD CHANCELLORquite concurred with the noble and learned Lord that the state of the law of patents and inventions was anything but satisfactory. The matter underwent investigation before a Committee of their Lordships' House some few years ago, and also, he believed, before a Committee of the other House of Parliament; they recommended some material changes, and the present system had been established in conformity with the changes so suggested. He had often had the subject under his own consideration, and he felt that the law was in a very discreditable state. He would again look into the matter; but seeing that it was beset by almost insurmountable difficulties, he was not prepared to say that he would introduce a measure next Session.
THE EARL OF HARROWBYsaid it was hardly possible to institute an inquiry into the merits of Mr. Daines' invention by a Committee at this period of the Session.
LORD LYNDHURSTsaid, he did not think the inquiry would occupy more than two or three hours at the outside. The

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decomposition of the stonework had commenced, to a very considerable extent, over different parts of the building, and no time ought to be lost in taking some step to prevent the continuance of the evil.

INDIA.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE moved for Returns connected with the land-tax of Bengal, Behar, Orissa, and Benares; of Indian officers employed in civil and political duties in 1847 and 1855; of the covenanted civil servants in actual employ in 1834, 1847, and 1855; of the same absent on furlough; of their total number, and their salaries. The noble Marquess said that he did not move for the Returns with the view of eliciting any expression of opinion on the subject at the present period of the Session, but in the hope that the Government of India would receive the full consideration of Parliament in the next Session. The first Return for which he had moved was, in fact, a return of the number of estates confiscated to the Government. He would not go into the question of how far those confiscations could be defended on the ground of public morality. All he asked was a return of the number confiscated, and he hoped he would not be told that the Return was too lengthy to be made. With regard to the civil service, he understood the Governor General had been obliged, in consequence of the paucity of civil servants, to call upon officers of the Indian army to perform civil and political duties. This was a fact which concerned the efficiency of the army as well as the civil service, and another question also arose—namely, whether officers of Her Majesty's army were not entitled to perform those duties as well as officers of the Indian army. The result of the present system was, that judicial functions were given to men who did not know the language of the persons whom they had to try, and that a boy from Hailey-bury, who was entered as an assistant, really found himself with authority to administer judicial functions. All he asked was, that the House should know how many of these officers there were. He begged also to move that the Return of the law expenditure in England of the East India Company since the year 1853, ordered to be laid before the House on the 16th June, be made forthwith. He believed it would be found that the law expenses of the East India Company in England were something monstrous, and would reveal a spirit of litigation which was not
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creditable on the part of a sovereign Power towards those whose territory and revenues had become absorbed in the possessions of the Crown. He believed the number of appeals would not be nearly so great if the Courts of India were tolerably well constituted, or if a spirit of litigation and oppression did not exist which induced the civil servants of the Company to commence proceedings, and involve the Indian Government in lawsuits that few of the natives were able to resist. In many of these cases the East India Company had been signally, and, he might say, disgracefully worsted. If there was no objection, he would likewise move for copies of any Minute of the East Indian Government in 1834, specifying the terms and conditions of the allowance to be made to the deposed Rajah of Coorg. He could not understand upon what ground it was that the East India Company required this deposed Prince to spend his income in India. His stipend amounted to the paltry sum of £448 per annum, less than was paid by the Company for a dinner at the London Tavern, or for a fee to counsel for arguing an appeal. The sum was even less than the salary of the Directors, and it was impossible to arrive at any other conclusion than this, that the Company wanted this gentleman to be turned out of the country, in order that he might not be able to prosecute his legal suit against them.
THE DUKE OF ARGYLLsaid, that he had stated on a former occasion that the Government did not feel itself called upon to defend the course which had been taken by the East India Company. It happened with respect to the payment of pensions, that the law and constitution had entrusted the East India Company with a very large discretion, and this was a point on which the Government had no right to interfere. This prince had obtained leave for a year, and at the expiration of that period the Company had required him to return to India.
Returns ordered to be laid before the House.

JUDICIAL REFLECTIONS ON MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE—JUDGMENT IN RE DYCE SOMBRE—QUESTION.
EARL ST. VINCENT EARL ST. VINCENT rose to put to the Lord Privy Seal the Question of which he had given notice:—Whether, inasmuch as the Judgments of the highest Legal Tribunals are Matters of Public Record, and may be referred to as Facts in the Knowledge of Government, and considering

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the severe Censures that have been passed in Three successive Judgments, pronounced by the late Lord Chancellor Cottenham, by Sir John Dodson, Judge of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, and by the Judicial Committee of Privy Council, upon the Conduct of a Noble Member of this House holding the Situation of Constable of the Tower of London, and also a distinguished Office near Her Majesty's Person, Her Majesty's Government have thought proper, for the due Preservation of the high Character of this House, to take any Steps in reference thereto? or if they intend so to do? The noble Earl requested that their Lordships, in indulgence to his infirmities, would permit the clerk at the table to read extracts from the judgments referred to, which was accordingly done.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEsaid, that Her Majesty's Government was not prepared to institute any proceedings in this matter. He must deprecate the discussion of circumstances which had occurred in a civil suit—circumstances which related to a noble Lord who had been no party to that suit—and who had had no opportunity of being heard in his defence. At the same time, whilst Her Majesty's Government was not prepared to institute any such proceedings, it must be understood that it expressed no opinion as to the opinions stated in these judgments, or the opinions which successive Judges had pronounced as to the conduct of this noble Lord. If it were necessary to institute any proceeding, it ought to be one to enable the noble Lord to come forward in his own defence and state his whole case. He had had no such opportunity; and, under these circumstances, the Government was not prepared to take that course which the noble Earl opposite seemed to think they should. He (the Marquess of Lansdowne) appreciated the motives which induced the noble Earl to bring the subject forward—that warm affection which he must bear to his nearest and dearest relative—a most distinguished and accomplished lady; but, believing that no good could result from any proceeding, he trusted that the matter would be suffered to drop.
EARL ST. VINCENTsaid, that the noble Marquess was under an erroneous impression in thinking that Lord Combermere had had no opportunity of being heard in his defence, for that he (Earl St. Vincent) had given to Lord Combermere early notice of what he intended doing,
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and had subsequently forwarded to him a copy of the question when he had determined upon that course. He would give every consideration to the suggestion of the noble Marquess that this matter should be suffered to drop; but, as a matter of precaution, he would notice that on an early day on the ensuing Session he would move that copies of these judgments be laid on the table with a view to further proceedings, feeling a strong conviction that these public judicial censures for a contempt of Court ought not to pass unnoticed.
House adjourned till To-morrow.