Lords Sitting of 8 July 1856

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Registration of Leases (Scotland); Commons Inclosure (No. 2); Courts of Common Law (Ireland).
2a Marriage and Registration Acts Amendment; Metropolis Local Management Act Amendment (No. 2); Turnpike Acts Continuance; Advowsons; Intestates Personal Estates; Militia Ballots Suspension: Grand Juries (Ireland); Charities.
3a Statutes not in Use Repeal; Evidence in Foreign Suits; Exchequer Bills (£4,000,000); Cambridge University.

THE CRIMEAN BOARD OF INQUIRY— REPORT OF THE COMMISSIONERS— QUESTION.
THE EARL OF LUCANasked the Secretary of State for the War Department, when Her Majesty's Government would lay before Parliament the Report of the Chelsea Board of General Officers? He was aware that the Report had only been signed by the Commissioners on Friday last, and that it had first to be laid before Her Majesty for her approval; he was also aware that some little time must elapse before it could be laid upon their Lordships' table. Still, when he recollected that they were then in the middle of July, and that it was expected Parliament would be up in the course of another ten days or a fortnight, he did not think it unreasonable to expect of the Government that they would use all the despatch possible in considering this important paper, and presenting it to the House. He was sure he spoke the

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feelings of the House and of the country when he said that much disappointment would be experienced if the noble Lord were not prepared, at all events, to state some early day on which the Report would he ready to be presented to Parliament.
LORD PANMUREsaid, it was impossible for him' to name any day on which he could undertake to lay the Report before Parliament. As the noble Earl had stated, it was signed only on Friday last, and he (Lord Panmure) knew from private information that it was at present in the hands of the Commander in Chief. He deeply regretted to say that he feared the sudden illness of that gallant officer might prevent the Report going to Her Majesty for some little time. After that the Report would for the first time be in the possession of the Government, and he quite agreed with the noble Earl that as soon as it was in the possession of the Government, and they had had an opportunity of forming an opinion upon it, they ought to lose no time in laying it before Parliament.
THE EARL OF LUCANcould not say that the answer of the noble Lord was a satisfactory one. What he wanted to know was, whether the Report had or had not been presented to Her Majesty?
LORD PANMURE: It has not.
THE EARL OF LUCAN: It is generally supposed that it was presented to Her Majesty yesterday.
LORD PANMURE: It has not been presented to Her Majesty, at least so I am informed.
THE EARL OF LUCANsaid, I understand that it was presented to Her Majesty yesterday. But, be that as it might, I am not satisfied with the answer of the noble Lord, and will renew my question on Friday.

ADVOWSONS BILL.
THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY moved the Second Reading of this Bill, which had passed through the Commons without opposition, and was intended to remove a great and growing evil. The immediate object of the Bill was to facilitate the sale of advowsons. As their Lordships were all aware, in many parts of this country advowsons were in the hands of large numbers of lay owners, and the presentations being generally by popular election scenes occurred which were very disgraceful. In fact, at these elections everything that was most scandalous to the Church,
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the good order, and the decencies of society, was perpetrated. He held in his hand a letter from Bilston, giving an account of the last election for a presentation that took place there. The election lasted five days, and 3,123 electors voted —every inhabitant, whether a householder or not, being entitled to vote. The letter stated that the cost to the unsuccessful candidate was about £1,600, and to the successful one about £5,000; that during the whole period of the election all the public-houses were open, and that drunkenness prevailed to a fearful extent. The writer added, that the whole thing was as bad as it could be, and that the moral effects remained for a very considerable time afterwards. This was but a repetition of a similar scene in 1813, and as the value of the living was increasing, at any future election a still more disgraceful scene, if such were possible, might be expected. Some time ago an election of this kind took place in Clerkenwell parish, in this metropolis; and so disgraceful, blasphemous, and indecent, were the expressions made use of by parties who took part in the proceedings, that he could not think of repeating them to their Lordships. All the indecent jokes and badinage that were uttered at elections for Members of Parliament, or any other public election where large masses were brought together, were exchanged amongst the crowd at these presentation elections; and surely such scenes on such occasions were in the last degree scandalous. The number of livings in this state of suffrage was about 150. The incomes attached to most of them were very small; in the majority of cases not reaching £150 a year. In 100 instances there were no parsonage houses. As the value of these livings was much too small to allow of a private Act of Parliament in each instance, it was now proposed to deal with the whole by a public Act. The Bill provided that the owners of these livings, or those in whom the right of election was vested, should meet and determine by a majority whether or not the advowson should be sold; that if sold, it should be absolutely vested in trustees for sale, and the money appropriated in paying the costs of sale, in providing a parsonage house where no such accommodation existed, or repairing the parsonage if dilapidated, in raising the value of the living to £150 a year, in providing for the maintenance of the fabric of the church, in the erection

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of schools, and increasing the amount of church accommodation in the parish.
Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Thursday next.

INTESTATES' PERSONAL ESTATES BILL.
EARL FORTESCUEsaid, that the object of this Bill was to establish an uniform administration of the estates of intestates by abolishing the customs of York and of London, which in the provision for widows and in some other respects differed materially from the disposal of intestate property, under the statute of distributions, and often led to doubts and difficulties, especially the custom of London, extending as it did to all freemen, even honorary ones of the City, or of any of its Companies, though their residence and their property might be ever so remote from it. The Bill had passed the other House without opposition, and he believed was approved of by noble and learned Lords on both sides of this House.
Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the whole House on Thursday next.

THE SCUTARI MONUMENT.
THE EARL OF HARRINGTON,on rising to address some queries to Her Majesty's Government on this subject, remarked that the object of the monument was to commemorate the character of the British soldiers, their toils, their endurance, their sufferings, and their heroic deeds. To execute such a work the first sculptor of the day should have been selected. The gentleman actually chosen was Signor Marochetti, an artist of considerable talent, peculiarly famed for massive equestrian statues; in other branches respectable, but not like Mr. Gibson, and some others, holding a first place in art. As an architect, Signor Marochetti was not known to fame; but, indeed, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find one person equally skilled in architecture and sculpture, as in the days of Michael Angelo, yet it would have required the skill of both those arts to produce a proper monument in the style of that which had been produced. There was nothing very remarkable about the Scutari monument; we had many in this country of the same description. It was very defective in its proportions, inasmuch as the pedestal was as high as the superstructure, whereas the base of Cleopatra's Needle was only
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one-third the height of the pillar itself. Many obelisks in England were superior to Signor Marochetti's Scutari monument, in point of taste, beauty, and design. One point about it was very remarkable—the lour unfortunate weeping angels could not possibly stand; or if they did, they must he standing either upon their wings, which extend considerably below their feet, or in a flying position. The observation had been made with regard to the statue in the Parthenon—that if it had attempted to stand its head would have gone through the roof. Marochetti was in a similar state with regard to his four weeping angels. The sculptors of this country did not wish to disparage the talent and genius of Signor Marochetti, whom they all highly respected, but they complained that a system of favouritism had been adopted, and that equal justice had not been done to the sculptors and architects of this and other countries. Entertaining the same opinion, in justice to those sculptors and architects he would put the following questions to the Government:—1. By whose authority the Scutari Monument had been undertaken? 2. Who had selected Signor Marochetti to undertake the work? 3. From what fund the payment was to be made? 4. Why the work had not been subjected to public competition, so that the sculptors of England, France, Italy, and Germany, might have sent in models, and an obelisk have been produced that would have immortalised our warriors and the sculptor for ages to come.
LORD PANMURE,in reply to the questions of the noble Earl, said he might observe, in the first place, that the noble Karl had mis-stated the objects of the monument to be erected at Scutari. It was not a monument intended to commemorate the heroic achievements of our soldiers during the late war, but to be a tribute to the memory of the sailors, the soldiers, and the marines, who had sacrificed their lives in the defence of their country. It was a tribute offered by the nation to the memory of those men. With reference to the source from which the idea proceeded, he might say generally that it was undertaken by the Government in accordance with the public wish, that such a monument should be erected ai Scutari, and that the money for the purpose had been voted by Parliament. As to the selection of the artist, if there were any fault in this respect, that responsibility rested with the Government. As to the question, of com-

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petition in those matters, the noble Earl would permit him to observe that the sculptors and artists of this country were much divided in opinion as to the propriety of submitting the plans for public monuments to general competition, so much so, indeed, that in several cases many of our first artists had declined to offer plans for public buildings. The Government selected Baron Marochetti, as being famous for some colossal works he had already produced, and the work he had designed for the monument of Scutari had so far commended itself to public favour that he had not before heard the design condemned as the noble Earl had condemned it. Indeed, he thought that little fault could be found in it. So far as his own opinion went, ho believed that the monument about to be erected at Scutari would be one of the finest the country had produced, and an honourable and handsome tribute by this nation to the memory of those brave men whom it was intended to commemorate, He thought that Baron Marochetti should not, at all events, be considered a foreign artist, for he had gained for himself a reputation in this country, and was looked upon more as an artist of this country than as a foreign artist. But even if he were viewed in the light of a foreign artist, the noble Earl could have no reason to complain of him, because it was his wish that the work should be competed for by the artists of England, Italy, France, and other countries. He (Lord Panmure) was quite certain that in Baron Marochetti's hands the work would be executed in a manner satisfactory to the country as well as creditable to the artist.
House adjourned till To-morrow.