Lords Sitting of 28 June 1855

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—la Youthful Offenders (No. 2); Union Charges Act Continuance; Court of Exchequer (Ireland); Burial-Grounds (Scotland); School Sites Alienation; Dwellings for Labouring Classes.
Reported—National Gallery, &c. (Dublin).
3a Militia (No. 2).

THE SLAVE TRADE.
LORD BROUGHAMsaid, that he had received a communication from the Brazilian Ambassador to this country in reference to the remarks he had made in that House the other night with respect to slavery and the slave trade. That communication corroborated every word that he (Lord Brougham) had said, and stated in addition certain important facts connected with the cessation of the slave trade in that country during the last four years. The number of slaves imported into Brazil amounted in the first of those four years to 50,000, in the next year to 30,000, in the third year to 3,000; and in the fourth year the traffic had entirely ceased. And not only that, but of the last mentioned 3,000 slaves imported 1,500 were taken by the police authorities of Brazil, and set at liberty.

MARRIED SOLDIERS—INCREASE OF PAY OF THE ARMY IN THE FIELD.
THE DUKE OF RICHMONDsaid, he wished to call the attention of his noble Friend the Secretary for War to a subject
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of which he had given him notice. He had observed in the newspapers advertisements calling on architects to send in plans for new barracks which were about to be erected in different parts of the country; and he wished to call the attention of his noble Friend to a matter of great importance, and to inquire whether in the erection of new barracks due care would be taken to have separate accommodation for married soldiers, their wives and children? Nothing could be more degrading from decency and self-respect than that married men and their wives should be sleeping in the same galleries where there were forty or fifty unmarried soldiers. He had been always taught to believe that decency and propriety were the most important outworks of chastity, and it was impossible to expect that women who witnessed such scenes as must occur in a barrack room could be otherwise than demoralised. He wished to call attention to a plan with regard to this matter which had been successfully tried. In 1852, Colonel Alexander, a gallant and distinguished officer, of the Madras army, was examined before the Committee of their Lordships' House which sat on Indian affairs, and he stated that in the Madras army the practice of married men and their wives living in the same building with the rest of the men had been abandoned, and that both the regiments and the women belonging to them had been greatly improved by the adoption of that course. He conceived it was hardly necessary for him to call the attention of his noble Friend to this subject. Though much had been done to improve the condition of the soldier by means of establishing schools and reading rooms, the cultivation of athletic exercises, and the distribution in our barracks of medals and gratuities for good conduct, yet much remained to be done. He did not see why a soldier in Her Majesty's service should not be as well off as a pauper in a workhouse, who had a dormitory in which he neither ate nor cooked his meals, but had a day-room; whereas the soldier too often, in barracks in this country, was compelled to cook and eat in the room in which he slept; and there was no comfort for him in his barrack-room. He believed the experiment of day-rooms had been found most beneficial in the police barracks in London. Instead of the soldier having a room where he might go, with a fire, by which he might read the papers or periodicals, and prepare his hot cocoa or

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coffee, you now drove the young soldier from his cheerless barrack-room, where so little fuel was allowed, to the beershop or the low public-house, where he began those habits of drunkenness which were the source of all the crimes the soldier committed. We talked of our gratitude to the brave men who were fighting in the Crimea, but he wanted gratitude expressed more in deeds than in words. In the first place take care of those whom the soldier loved, and then endeavour to elevate his character by giving him respectable habits; and if that was done the country would look favourably on the soldier, and respect him as much for his conduct in quarters as they did for his heroic gallantry in the field. He wished to ask his noble Friend if any plan such as he had imperfectly indicated was to be carried out in the erection of new barracks? He trusted also that he might be allowed to ask if the recruiting for Her Majesty's forces was going on in a satisfactory manner?—for though he for one never had, or should have a doubt of the success of the British army in any undertaking in which they were engaged, yet he should be glad to be informed whether the Goverment had taken seriously into their consideration the absolute necessity at the present moment of putting into the ranks of the army, not merely children of seventeen or eighteen years old, but young men with more formed constitutions, who, though they never could be braver than those who were now in the Crimean army, would have more stamina to enable them to undergo the privations, fatigues and hardships which were inseparable from war.
LORD PANMURE: My Lords, in answering my noble Friend's questions, I will in the first place state my entire conviction that they are put in no spirit of hostility to the Government, because the conduct of the noble Duke, in reference to military matters in this House, fully proves that he is the last person to be actuated by any such motives. With regard to my noble Friend's first question, it must be satisfactory to all concerned in the welfare of the British army to feel that the tendency, not simply of public opinion, but of the public acts of the House of Commons, in voting the supplies for the army, has of late years been to improve the condition of the soldier. Every person who for many years past has occupied the situation of Secretary at War has endeavoured to raise
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the character of the military profession in this country with a view of inducing respectable persons to permit their children to embark in it. But although much has been done in that direction—for instance, by establishing libraries and promoting education—although the spiritual instruction of the soldier has been attended to, and although the temptation in the shape of spirits in the canteens has been removed—still I admit that much remains to be done for the comfort of the soldier. Nobody can have heard the description just given by the noble Duke of the condition of women in barracks, even when admitted there with the sanction of a commanding officer, without feeling how degrading a system must be which exposes them to witness every day the scenes weich occur in a barrack room. The subject of the future construction of barracks is at present under the consideration of a Committee; that Committee has not yet reported, nor can I say whether it has especiallly directed its attention to this point; but if it has not, it will be the duty of those who are charged with the erection of barracks to amend the Report in that particular. I quite agree with the noble Duke, that without dayrooms barracks cannot be made comfortable for the soldier, and that it is neither wholesome nor becoming that the equipments should be kept and all cooking done in the sleeping-rooms. Such a state of things ought certainly to be put an end to. It is absolutely necessary, too, that separate accommodation should be provided for women if women are to be admitted into barracks; but I am one of those who think that the presence of women might be dispensed with altogether in barracks. I do not see why soldiers in the army should not be able to do for themselves many of those things which women are now employed to do. It would be no great hardship if young men entering the army were to be informed that, at all events until the expiration of their first period of enlistment—until the end of ten years in the infantry, and of twelve years in the cavalry—they would not on any pretence be permitted to marry. If that were the rule, I believe that with the present arrangement of the army there would never be any married privates at all; the only married people in a regiment would be noncommissioned officers, and there would be no difficulty in providing separate accommodation for them. I see no reason why

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a certain class of non-commissioned officers, might not very properly be married, and attached to the regiment as married men. The noble Duke's second question—with regard to the progress which recruiting for the army is at present making—is one in which every one of your Lordships, as well as the whole country, must be deeply interested. It is impossible to deny that the establishment of the army is far below that which has been voted by the House of Commons. I do not attribute this to any dislike to the service, because a great number of men have entered the army, and we are at the present moment recruiting very nearly at the rate of 1,000 per week; but still there never has been a sufficient number enlisted to bring up the number to that which was voted by Parliament, and, although we are gaining ground, yet we are on the other hand, losing by the consumption at the seat of war. It occurred to Her Majesty's Government that the difficulty might be got rid of by an increase of the bounty; but on consultation with the noble Lord at the head of the army, and with those who have had considerable experience in this matter, we have been dissuaded from taking that step. We propose, therefore, to try another mode, which though entirely novel in the British army, is one from which we anticipate considerable success. The plan is this, that to all soldiers who shall be engaged in the field of action before the enemy—and this will of course apply at once to the army in the Crimea—double pay shall be given. I propose that a shilling a day shall be added to the pay of all men who are now before the enemy; and this addition will take place from the day when they landed in the Crimea. I do not propose that this addition shall go immediately into the pockets of the soldier. I am one of those who think that if the expenses which are put upon soldiers by some commanding officers and others who take arbitrary views on these points were more carefully watched, the pay of a soldier would be amply sufficient for all his necessities in time of war. I propose, therefore, that this additional pay shall be invested in the savings bank in the country. If the soldier survives and returns to this country, it will accumulate into a fund which he will receive on his discharge; if he is pensioned, he will have it in addition to his pension; and, if he unfortunately falls, it will be given to his representatives. Every soldier, there-
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fore, who dies fighting the battles of his country will leave a fund behind him for those who are dear to him; and if he survives he will have an accumulating fund for himself at the end of the war, which will not interfere with or be in lieu of any pension to which he may be entitled. This plan I intend to make public in a few days by means of a proclamation, and I trust that by adopting this plan, instead of increasing the bounty, I shall not only be taking the most adequate means of rewarding those who are already fighting the battles of their country abroad, but that I shall be enabled more economically to tempt the youth of this country to prefer the army as a profession, and to enter into it at a time when I have no hesitation in saying their services are most urgently required.

ASSIZES AND SESSIONS.
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
LORD CAMPBELLafter referring to the various important alterations of the law involved in the measure, suggested that as a number of Bills had already been postponed in the House of Commons on account of the advanced state of the Session, the present Bill, which would require most deliberate consideration in the House of Commons, should also be deferred to another Session,
Moved, that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee.
THE LORD CHANCELLORcould see no reason why the Bill should be postponed. It had been read a second time, and generally speaking, received the approbation of their Lordships. Even his noble and learned Friend approved the object of the measure, and the only reason he suggested for its postponement was an apprehension that it might be opposed in the other House of Parliament. He did not see why the Bill should not pass both Houses; but, at all events, he hoped their Lordships would do their duty and carry it through its various stages without delay. It would rest with the House of Commons to find time to consider it or to deal with it otherwise.
LORD BROUGHAMhoped, when his noble and learned Friend argued so much in favour of not overloading the other House of Parliament with business when the solemn season of the 12th of August drew nigh, that the other House would

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take the same considerate course with regard to their Lordships, and not send up Bills within the last ten, or even three or four days of the close of the Session, which they were called on either to reject altogether or swallow whole, seeing it was physically impossible to apply to them the slightest consideration. He hoped their Lordships would now go into Committee on the Bill.
After a few words from the Duke of RICHMOND and Lord DENMAN,
Motion agreed to; House in Committee accordingly; an Amendment moved and negatived; other Amendments made: the Report thereof to be received on Monday next.

THE MILITIA (No. 2) BILL.
Order of the Day for the Third Reading read.
Moved, that the Bill he now read 3a
THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, that he hoped the noble Lord the Secretary at War would introduce some Amendments into the second clause. One of the greatest inconveniences sustained in the various towns and parishes throughout the country, was the inequality that existed in the valuation of property, and the assessment of the rates. The noble Lord, seeing that disputes as to the proportion which each parish in a county should contribute to the expenses of the militia would very probably arise, proposed that the Government should appoint an umpire to settle the proportions which each parish should contribute. He thought, however, that it would be much better to take the income-tax valuation as the basis of contribution.
LORD PANMUREobjected to the proposal, on the ground that to introduce it into the Bill at this stage would be a violation of the privileges of the House of Commons.
LORD BERNERScomplained of the complicated and, at the same time, loose manner in which several of the clauses were framed. He thought it was highly desirable that some provisions should be introduced into the Bill in order to secure a more equal and just system of assessment and rating than would be obtained by the Bill as it stood.
Motion agreed to.
Bill read 3a accordingly.
An Amendment moved and negatived; an Amendment made.
Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.
House adjourned till To-morrow.