§ LORD REDESDALEcalled the attention of their Lordships to the returns lately laid before them of all houses, buildings, &c., hired by the Government for official purposes. These returns showed that houses were hired or held by the Crown for official purposes at an annual expense of 22,000l., and it must, therefore, be evident that great economy would be the result of having the official buildings in their own hands. He would suggest that no time should be lost in purchasing sufficient ground for the erection of offices, and he thought the best course would be to acquire that range of buildings which extended along the north side of Parliament Street, below Whitehall towards Westminster Abbey. By this means the new official buildings might be extended in a line from the Privy Council Office to Great George Street, or, at least, to Charles Street. If this was not done, the new buildings carried in that direction would stand in a very narrow street, and they would, in addition, lose the advantage of having Parliament Street widened. Great inconvenience was experienced from the separation of the public offices from each other, and he need not inform their Lordships of the very inadequate, and even unsafe, condition of many of the existing buildings. The ground necessary for these purposes could be acquired at a more reasonable rate now than it probably would be in future years, the buildings on it being greatly dilapidated, and the leases having 2015 nearly run out; and he therefore thought the Government should he encouraged to undertake the duty at the earliest possible period. He felt bound to say that though the returns laid before the House contained some valuable information, yet they ought to have included a great deal more than they did.
§ EARL GRANVILLEdid not complain of the noble Lord having brought forward this subject, which undoubtedly was one of pressing importance. The noble Lord was no doubt, aware that so far back as 1839 a Committee of the House of Commons made a Report on this subject, in which they stated that the buildings of the Foreign and other Public Offices were very inadequate and insufficient for the public convenience—that they were even unsafe, and in such a dilapidated state as to render it inexpedient to expend any considerable sum of money for their repair. This dilapidation had been gradually increasing since that time, and he believed that on one occasion his noble Friend opposite (the Earl of Malmesbury) was nearly overwhelmed at the Foreign Office by the whole ceiling of the room coming down just after he had left the table at which he had been sitting. He had been told that Mr. Macaulay made it his habit, when in office, to keep a diary of the subsidence of one of the Cabinet room windows; and it must be admitted that, in many respects the buildings were getting more shaky every day. An inspection of the buildings had taken place in the course of the present year, and the report of the inspectors fully confirmed all that had been said as to the disgraceful state in which they now were. The amount of rent annually paid was undoubtedly very large. This arose from the circumstance that from almost every department applications were made to the Chief Commissioner of Public Works for accommodation, and he was compelled, in order to meet the necessities of the case, to give often very extravagant rent for houses containing one or two rooms that could be used for public offices. What the Government had done was this—they had brought a Bill into the other House of Parliament for the purpose of enabling them to purchase certain portions of land in the neighbourhood of Downing Street, in order that commodious public offices might be built thereon. A proposal had been made to extend the public offices by taking part of the ground of St. James's Park, but the Government thought it unadvisable 2016 to encroach upon any of the parks of the metropolis, and considered it better to purchase ground in Fludyer Street and the neighbourhood than to interfere with St. James's Park. Plans had been prepared for the new buildings, and it was proposed that one new office should be built at a time, in order to avoid the great inconvenience which would result from frequent removals and the transfer of public papers from one office to another. A Commission which had been sent over to Paris some time ago by a noble Friend of his (Lord Panmure) to inquire into the arrangements of the French War Office; and they had reported that it would be impracticable to apply some of the most useful arrangements of the French system to the English Government offices, in consequence of the manner in which many of the branches of the department were dispersed in various parts of the metropolis. His noble Friend who brought this subject forward had thereby evinced his desire for administrative reform, and he certainly possessed this advantage over some Gentlemen who had advocated similar reforms—that he had a very clear and tangible object in view.
§ THE EARL OF HARDWICKEsuggested that all the various departments connected with the navy should be concentrated at Somerset House, and that the buildings in Whitehall now used by the Admiralty should be appropriated to other purposes in connection with the public service.
§ EARL GRANVILLEobserved that the suggestion of the noble Earl was open to this objection—that it would be very inconvenient to remove the First Lord of the Admiralty to so great a distance from his colleagues in the War Department and from the other Secretaries of State. He might observe, however, that the learned societies which had hitherto occupied rooms in Somerset House were about to vacate them, and considerable additional accommodation would therefore be available for public offices in that building.
§ THE EARL or HARDWICKEthought that the mere convenience of a Minister of the Crown ought not to have any weight in comparison with the advantages which would result to the public service from such an arrangement as he had suggested. The First Lord of the Admiralty was sufficiently well paid to be enabled to have horses and carriages at his command, and he did not think any inconvenience could result from transferring all the Admiralty departments to Somerset House.
THE EARL OF MINTOconsidered that the entire removal of the Admiralty to Somerset House would he attended with great inconvenience with reference to the transaction of public business, in consequence of the distance at which the First Lord of the Admiralty would be placed from his colleagues in the Administration.
§ THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, he understood that an offer had been made to the Government by a private company to build all the public offices that were required at Whitehall, according to specified plans, and in a particular style of architecture, on condition that the Government should pay a certain rent for such buildings for a specified term. He begged to ask whether such an offer had been made, and, if so, why it had not been entertained by the Government?
§ EARL GRANVILLEreplied, that it was perfectly true that some such proposition had been made to the Government; but, although he was in the first instance disposed to regard the offer favourably, he found, on inquiry, that no security was given which could afford a satisfactory assurance that the scheme would be carried out. Such a plan also would have bound the Government to pay a very high rate of interest upon the capital advanced, while the Government, with their powers of borrowing, would be enabled to obtain the same amount of money at a much cheaper rate.
§ LORD REDESDALEinquired whether plans had already been prepared for the buildings to be erected upon the ground in Downing Street?
§ EARL GRANVILLEsaid, that plans had been executed, and had been in the hands of the Government for some time, but no decision had yet been come to with regard to the plans which would be adopted.
§ LORD REDESDALEhoped the Government would not sanction any plan which could not be carried out in a proper and satisfactory manner. For his own part, he thought the Government ought not to decide upon any plan until they had got possession of the west side of Parliament Street, which would enable them to give a handsome frontage to the new public offices.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEwas understood to express his concurrence in the views of Lord Redesdale.