Lords Sitting of 30 July 1855

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Office of Speaker.
3a, Coal Mines Inspection; Militia Officers' Qualifications; Trinity College (Dublin).
ROYAL ASSENT— Places of Religious Worship Registration; Weights and Measures; Public Libraries and Museums; West Indies Relief Loans Arrangement; Incumbered Estates (Ireland) Act Continuance; Burial of Poor Persons; Lunatic Asylums (Ireland); Stage Carriage Duties, &c.; Convention with United States; Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Continuance; Treasurers of Counties (Ireland).

THE CRIMINAL LAW.
LORD BROUGHAM LORD BROUGHAM moved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for Return of the Number of Prisoners tried at the last General Sessions, distinguishing the Counties, and the Number acquitted, the Sentences on those convicted, and the Dates of their Commitment. These returns, the noble and learned Lord said, were in continuation of former returns which had been laid on the table. He would take the opportunity of asking the noble and learned Lord on the woolsack whether he had any apprehension that the Bill which had passed unanimously through that House—the Summary Jurisdiction Bill—for the more speedy trial of persons charged with petty larceny, would not become law in the present Session? He was of opinion that that measure would effect one of the most important improvements in the jurisprudence of our criminal law proceedings. He also wished for information in respect to the measure that had for its object the expediting of the trials of offenders by increasing the number of assizes or sessions. He certainly entertained no hope of that measure passing this Session, but he earnestly desired that it should be introduced in the early part of next Session. As to the difficulty respecting the number of Judges that would be required to carry out such a measure, he had no doubt that, by a judicious extension of the jurisdiction of the County Court Judges that difficulty might be easily surmounted. He could not name the County Court Judges without once more appealing to his noble and learned Friend, and to the Government generally, as to the unsatisfactory manner in which those Judges were paid, and to the question of fees extracted from the suitors of those courts. He hoped that his noble and learned Friend would be able to propose some

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satisfactory remedy for those evils. He must say he differed entirely from those who said that this Session would have passed without any measure of importance for the amendment of the law having been carried. He trusted that the Summary Jurisdiction Bill, the Charitable Trusts Bill, and the Leasehold and Settled Estates Bill—three most important measures—would be passed into a law in the present Session. Parliament had already passed the Bills of Exchange and Promissory Notes Bill, another most important measure. If all those measures be passed, he could not certainly be of opinion that the Session had been barren of any measures for the improvement of the law.
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid that, of course there could be no objection to the Motion for the Return desired by the noble and learned Lord. With respect to the question put to him regarding measures now pending in the other House—as to the Summary Jurisdiction Bill, he was as confident of its passing as he could be of anything not within his personal control. He had communicated a few days ago with the Home Secretary, who stated that he had no apprehension on the subject of the passing of that Bill. It was true that, like other measures, it was suspended for the moment in a way that naturally gave rise in the mind of bystanders to apprehension that this suspended animation might be a permanent suspension; but neither himself nor the Home Secretary had any apprehension that it would be permanently dropped. It had gone through a Select Committee of the House of Commons, who had taken great pains in its consideration, and that circumstance afforded some guarantee that the House of Commons did not intend to let the measure drop. After receiving alterations and, he trusted, improvements in the Select Committee, the Bill had been committed in the House of Commons, and seven or eight clauses had been gone through; and it was only owing to the pressure of other business that it had not been proceeded with further. He had entire confidence that it would become law before the end of the Session. With regard to the other criminal measures, he had not the same confidence about them. With regard to one of the more important measures, that for the more frequent trial of offenders, he felt assured that that could not pass during the present Session. The Bill was attended with considerable difficulties,
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in as much as it involved the consolidation, for the purpose of trials, of several counties together; without such consolidation it would be impossible to carry into effect any measure for the purpose desired, unless a material increase, in the way of which there would be great difficulty, were made to the number of Judges of the superior courts at Westminster. He had communicated with the Home Secretary on the subject, and could state that, though that Bill might not be passed, yet the Government had in contemplation to remedy, to a certain extent, by means of the prerogative, the deficiency the Bill was intended to supply, by sending more commissions than hitherto to the crowded counties during the winter. With respect to the Charitable Trusts Bill, it was the firm intention of the Government to press it through in the course of the present Session. It passed their Lordships House after a careful consideration in a Select Committee, and he felt great confidence in its passing the other House. With respect to the Leases and Sales of Settled Estates Bill, that had been referred to a Select Committee of the House of Commons; and he had been assured by the Solicitor General that he had every confidence in its passing. It seemed that an apprehension had been entertained that the real object of the Bill was to give occasion for the enclosure of Hampstead-heath, but every one of their Lordships who were acquainted with the Bill knew that such an idea was absurd. However, to remove all objection on that score, the Solicitor General had framed a clause to exclude the possibility of such a proceeding taking place under the Bill. He quite agreed with his noble and learned Friend in thinking that, if those measures passed, the Session could not be said to be barren of measures of law reform. His noble and learned Friend had not said all he might of the Bills of Exchange Bill, which, if not his in form, was so substantially, for it was framed in accordance with a Bill introduced by him. If projects of more extensive reform were not carried this Session, it should be borne in mind that other matters of absorbing interest were agitating and occupying the public mind; but he hoped the country, making allowance for this difficulty, would give the Government credit for the Bills introduced, showing, as they did, that the Government were earnest in their desire to carry into effect measures of law reform.
LORD WYNFORDexpressed his disapprobation of the intention which he understood existed to exclude an individual by name from the operation of the Leases and Sales of Settled Estates Bill.
THE LORD CHANCELLORexplained, that the clause intended to be introduced would merely provide that persons, who had applied to the Legislature for a certain object, and had been refused, should be left by the Bill as they stood before. He was not aware of any proposition having ever been brought before Parliament for the enclosure of Hampstead-heath.
Motion agreed to.
House adjourned till To-morrow.