Lords Sitting of 12 July 1855

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2a Dwelling Houses (Scotland); Endowed Schools (Ireland); Gold Wedding Rings; Commons Inclosure (No. 2); Incumbered Estates (Ireland) Act Continuance.
3a Haileybury College; Powers under Improvement Acts Regulation.

DWELLINGS FOR LABOURING CLASSES BILL.
House in Committee.
Clause 5,
THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURYsaid, he had to propose some important and additional clauses calculated to carry out the object of the Bill. That object was most admirable—to provide suitable dwellings for the labouring poor. But the great difficulty was in procuring proper sites for that purpose, and to this it was that the clauses he had to propose related. The labouring poor required dwellings as near as possible to the scene of their labour. It would be of no use to them to have dwelling-houses situate a mile or two from their work, so as to add to their labour the fatigue of walking backward and forward, or put them to the expense of some conveyance. To procure sites, however, for their dwellings in large towns was extremely difficult, the land being mostly in
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the hands of middlemen, who exacted the largest rents they could get. But there were in all large towns certain localities crowded with foul and noisome houses, in close courts and alleys—localities very likely to cause pestilence, and such as it was necessary for sanitary purposes to open up and get rid of. Now, those sites would prove invaluable for the purposes of this measure, as they were often in the most convenient positions for the poor, in the very heart of the town, or in its populous suburbs. And it would be of the greatest importance to obtain them for the purpose of clearing them of those bad houses, and erecting clean and wholesome dwellings for the poor in their place. Indeed, unless some such measures were resorted to it was not easy to see how the present Bill could possibly be rendered effective. Now, there was a Bill before their Lordships' House—the Dwelling Houses (Scotland) Bill—which contained clauses to effect this very object; and as that which was good for Scotland in this respect would be equally good for England, he proposed to adopt those clauses into the present Bill. The clauses in question empowered a certain body answering to the Board of Health in this Bill to clear localities in which the houses were so close, so crowded, and so unclean as to be unfit for human habitation—unwholesome and likely to breed nuisances—and to erect proper houses for the poor on the sites so obtained. These provisions would be most invaluable in the present Bill, which without them would be comparatively valueless; and he therefore proposed to include them.
EARL GRANVILLEsaid, he was disposed to concur with the noble Earl; but the Bill in question which stood next on their Lordships' paper, had not yet gone into Committee, and the clauses referred to had yet to be discussed and adopted.
Clause agreed to; as were the remaining clauses.
Amendments made; Report to be received on Monday next.

DWELLING-HOUSES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE MARQUESS OF BREADALBANE THE MARQUESS OF BREADALBANE moved the second reading of this Bill, the object of which he explained to be similar to that of the measure on the same subject which had been introduced for England.
LORD PANMUREconsidered this to be

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one of the most useful and benevolent measures that had for a long period been brought before Parliament, as under its provisions there was the prospect of obtaining for the operative classes of Scotland a class of dwellings favourable to the promotion of both their moral and their sanitary improvement.
THE DUKE OF ARGYLLregarded the Bill as an important and valuable one, of the application of which no part of the kingdom stood more in need than Scotland, where the houses inhabited by large numbers of the poor were in an exceedingly dirty and ill-cared for condition, and in a state quite incompatible with decency. The clause in the Bill which enabled the association to improve those dwellings which were left in such a condition as to be a nuisance should, however, be modified so as to give the proprietors the option of improving them at their own expense.
LORD REDESDALEadmitted that Bills of this character might have an excellent object, but certainly more care was required in drawing them than appeared to have been bestowed in this case. The minimum number of partners who were to form the proposed associations for improving the dwellings of the poor was, for instance, fixed by the Bill as low as four, a number which would not be sufficient to guard against abuse of the important powers which the measure would confer.
Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the whole House To-morrow.

INCUMBERED ESTATES (IRELAND) ACT CONTINUANCE BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
Moved—That the Bill be now read a Second Time.
THE LORD CHANCELLORexplained that the Commissioners, who had made an elaborate inquiry into the whole subject, recommended the permanent establishment of what would be equivalent to an Incumbered Estates Court, but the jurisdiction of which would not be confined to incumbered estates only, but would extend to giving a Parliamentary title for sale to other estates as well. He had not yet had time to consider all the recommendations of the Committee; but it was advisable, by this Bill, to continue the existing Act for one year more; and he trusted that before the end of next Session the recommendations of the Commissioners, either entire, or else modified, as
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might seem best, would have become the law of the land.
LORD BROUGHAMremarked, that the Incumbered Estates Act had proved of the greatest possible benefit to Ireland, and he wished that we had in England something—not precisely of the same kind, which was not needed in this country—but grounded on the same principles, to give better facilities for conveyance of estates, and of obtaining a good Parliamentary title, which would be a very great blessing to landowners and to the purchasers of estates.
Bill read 2a and committed to a Committee of the whole House To-morrow.
House adjourned till To-morrow.