HL Deb 27 February 1855 vol 136 cc1961-73
THE EARL OF HARDWICKE

My Lords, I rise for the purpose of moving for certain returns, of which I have given notice; and I shall ask your Lordships, if those returns are granted, to permit me to make some slight observations on the terms of my Motion. Under ordinary circumstances, I should content myself with morely moving for these returns; but there are peculiar reasons why I think it my duty upon this occasion to lay before your Lordships a statement of the case which induced me to bring them before the House. The information with which I have been supplied is, of course, not obtained from any official source, and it is probable, therefore, that it will not have the same degree of weight with your Lordships that any answer which may come from the Government may have; but, nevertheless, my Lords, in all the affairs of this war, the public have been so well informed, and so much feeling has been excited with regard to every branch of the services connected with the war, that, generally speaking, the information supplied to the country has been pretty accurate. Probably, if I were to enter into any detail upon this matter, I should morely weary your Lordships, and perhaps commit several of those errors which persons receiving their information from ordinary channels are liable to commit. Nevertheless, the broad features of the case which I am about to lay before your Lordships are, I believe, perfectly true, or your Lordships may be certain I should not have ventured to bring them before you. My Lords, nothing that I know of can convey a stronger feeling of the desire of this country to carry on the war with vigour than that the whole of the resources of the country should have been laid, as it were, at the feet of the Government. The other night the other House of Parliament voted, almost without discussion, a sum of upwards of 5,000,000l. for the transport service of the ensuing year, notwithstanding that that House possessed the knowledge that during last year a sum of no less than 3,582,000l. had been expended in the transport service of the country. It is partly for this reason, and also because the First Lord of the Admiralty, in bringing forward the Estimate, though making two general statements, wholly omitted the details of the transport service, that I am desirous, when the Estimates of the House of Commons are brought up in this House in the form of a Bill, to have placed in the hands of your Lordships the returns which I now ask for. It was stated in another place that the expenditure of the last year for the transport service was 3,582,474l., and for the year 1855–6 the sum required was 5,081,465l., which two sums taken together would, I believe, purchase the whole of the transports employed in the service of the Crown. The number of transports stated to be employed was not given in any detail, but it was stated that they were employed, more or less, during the year, thus implying that some ships had been employed for a short period and others for a long period. It was stated that 102 steam transports had been employed with a tonnage of 121,060 tons, and 153 sailing vessels with a tonnage of 93,172 tons, making altogether a tonnage of 214,232 tons. This gives a sum of about 16l. a ton for the whole of the tonnage employed during the year. But the Government found coals for the steamers, which is a most important feature in this case, and one which I beg your Lordships to bear in mind. The Government agreed to find coals, in addition to the money paid for the hire of the transports. I say then that the 16l. a ton paid for every description of vessel for the year does not appear at first sight an exorbitant sum; but we do not know the period for which the various vessels were employed—whether they were chiefly steam or sailing vessels, or what proportion of each was employed. It was necessary, in my opinion, that this information should have been given to Parliament, but that course was not adopted. The sum now asked for is so monstrous, that in recent periods—for instance, in the years 1830 and 1831 —the amount of money obtained for the whole service of the Royal Navy was about equal to the sum now asked for the maintenance of the transport service. The sums which have been voted in former years for the Royal Navy have varied from 5,000,000l. to 6,000,000l., and now a sum of 5,000,000l. has been granted by the House of Commons for the transport service alone. Under such circumstances, it will naturally be asked, how has this amount of money been expended? My Lords, I venture to assert, with very great humility, that in the whole service of the Crown, under any circumstances whatever, there has hardly ever been evinced a greater degree of profligate extravagance with regard to the expenditure of the public money, a greater degree of carelessness and ignorance in the mode of making the contracts, a greater degree of slovenliness in employing the various vessels, and a less amount of arrangement in the vessels sailing from and coming into the ports of this country. Nay, more; in the quarter in which these ships have been employed—namely, the Black Sea—their utility has been destroyed by a system, or rather by a want of system and a want of arrangement in the various departments—in the receiving department, the landing department, the department for embarking the troops, and for carrying on, in short, all those mechanical operations necessary in a service of this description, and which are so familiar to all persons engaged in mercantile transactions in this country. Now, my Lords, I am bound to show, after making this statement, upon what grounds I venture to use such strong language. When the war first broke out it was thought necessary at once to employ a large amount of tonnage for the purpose of conveying our army a considerable distance for the invasion of an enemy's country. The Government then issued a notice to the public, stating that they were prepared to take up tonnage to a very considerable amount. Merchants came willingly forward with vessels of every amount of tonnage and every description of construction;—in short, the whole trade of the country seemed at once for the moment to be laid at the feet of the Crown. The Government then proceeded to contract for a certain amount of tonnage, and in the process of entering into these contracts they were induced to make arrangements upon terms which very much astonished the merchants, and led them to see at once that the persons engaged in a business of so important a nature were wholly and entirely ignorant of the manner in which such great mercantile transactions ought to be made and carried out. No doubt your Lordships will be perfectly aware that, in the ordinary technical language of builders and seafaring men, there are two distinct descriptions of tonnage—namely, builders' tonnage and registered tonnage; but some of your Lordships may not be aware of the amazing difference existing in a steam-vessel between the two descriptions of tonnage. To show your Lordships the difference which really does exist I will give you an instance. The builders' tonnage of the Britannia of the Cunard line is 1,154 tons, but her registered tonnage is only 619 tons, there being a tonnage of upwards of 500 tons occupied by her engines and propelling power. Now, my Lords, the gentlemen to whom the duty of making the contracts was intrusted sent away the merchants perfectly delighted with the news that the contracts about to be entered into would be made at so much per ton builders' tonnage. This was the beginning of a series of difficulties which could not be got over. The contracts were signed and the arrangements made; and, in addition to taking up the ships on these terms, Government undertook to supply the steamers with coals. In the midst of their difficulties the Government began to consider that the best mode of getting out of the position in which they found themselves placed would be to purchase the transports which they had hired, which would, of course, involve a very large expenditure of money at once. Up to a recent date two transports have been delivered into the hands of the Crown, and I am afraid that in the case of each of those transports a large additional expense will have to be borne by the country. The Prince was lost in the great storm in the Black Sea, and the Perseverance was upset in the dock, and can only be rendered fit for public service at a great outlay. This was the commencement of a series of accidents to the transport service which has involved the country in such an amount of expenditure. Another circumstance which had much to do with the loss of public money with reference to the transports was, that the Government entered into arrangements with another company that was engaged in the postal service between England and North America and the West Indies, and I think the amount of money paid for this postal service was between 200,000l. and 300,000l. per annum. The vessels of this company were taken up as transports, and they were allowed to enter into arrangements like any other merchants; and, having been thus deprived of the means of carrying on their postal contract, they were still allowed to receive the money they had contracted to receive for such postal service. This appears to me to have been another very great error. Added to this, since these contracts have been entered into by Government, great difficulty is found in sending to various parts of the world. You cannot send anything to the Crimea, for there is no regular communication kept up by the packets; and if you want to send there you are obliged to go to the Government and the officers of the Crown, and beg them to assist you in sending anything you may desire to the Crimea, or any other part of the world. After the Government had entered into these contracts one would suppose that the greatest vigilance and earnestness would have been used on their part to keep these vessels in constant employ, for the purpose of saving as much as they could under the circumstances; but a great number of these transports have been kept so extremely idle that while their owners have revelled in advantageous contracts, they have not been called upon in many instances to perform any great amount of work. The Simla, a very large vessel of near 3,000 tons, lay at Constantinople for six weeks, having nothing whatever to do. Another case occurred in the Black Sea—a vessel was freighted from England with boots and shoes; when it arrived at Balaklava, there was no person to whom the cargo was consigned, it was not allowed to be received; and it is a notorious fact that this vessel crossed the Black Sea three times before it could get rid of its cargo. Another flagrant case of mismanagement was what I may call the potato case. Owing to the anxiety of the Government to give the army relief and assistance, a transport obtained a cargo of potatoes; but, as there was no consignment or consignee or bills of lading, these potatoes could not be received at Balaklava; the master of the transport, very wisely, seeing the potatoes would be destroyed if kept longer on board, permitted the people on the shore to take the potatoes away; they did so; and these persons sold the potatoes at the highest possible price they could exact to the troops, to whom they were intended as a gift. I have shown that these contracts and the mode of dealing with these transports have been attended with great loss to the country. But this is not all; let us see what takes place at home in cases where transports are called upon to carry troops or stores to the Crimea. I am happy to be able to state that if the transport was employed for carrying naval stores as connected with the dockyard, there the mode in which the arrangements have been conducted was perfect in itself; the ship was properly laden, the stores which were to be last delivered were put underneath, while those to be delivered first were placed at the top, and there was a constant uniformity and good management in reference to the dockyards and the officers connected with them. But if, on the other hand, it happened that the transport was called on to load with stores for the army, then they had confusion worse confounded; they had the Treasury and Commissariat sending stores, the Ordnance sending shot and shell, the Medical Department with its medical stores, and other departments wrangling which stores should be put in first and which last; in many cases the articles last wanted were stowed away uppermost; and in many instances the vessels sailed with their tonnage not completed, while in other cases vessels became crowded to excess, and carried more than they ought. So much for the vessels on leav- ing the ports of this country. We have heard enough of their reception at Balaklava; but I should like to say a few words on the vessels arriving in this country. The vessels bring invalids, and generally put in at Portsmouth. 2They are of considerable tonnage, and, though well adapted to be handled in great waters, they are unfit for the navigation of small rivers. After they have arrived at Portsmouth, and landed part of their men orders are frequently sent to them to come round to the Medway for the purpose of landing the remainder of their men, and the value of the coals consumed by these vessels in going up the Medway and returning to Portsmouth, is, at the present price, equal to 400l.; and the object was to land, perhaps, 100 invalids, who might have been conveyed by railway for less than 50l. It was not until it was found at how small a sum the men could be conveyed to Chatham and elsewhere by railway, that it was thought more desirable to adopt this mode of conveyance than to bring the vessels up the Medway at such an expense. These are instances of mismanagement that have been attended with such a large expenditure of public money as renders the case one most important for the consideration not only of the other House, but of Parliament, for the purpose of rectifying these tremendous mistakes and abuses that have arisen in all departments with reference to this war. Such has been the confusion in the embarkation of cargoes and the ignorance of the Government with reference to the character of the cargoes embarked, that when the Prince was lost the Admiralty wrote to every dockyard in the country, inquiring if they knew what was in her—if they knew the cargo received at that particular port. Every port in the south said they had never heard of the ship until it was lost;—and the fact was that it was laden under the very nose of the Government in the Thames. In addition to the valuable cargo that was lost in the Prince, report said that 200,000l. in money went down in her, and I should like to know whether this was so. My Lords, I have now stated very shortly a few of the points bearing most strongly on this question, and which form the grounds that induce me to move for these returns. There is nothing of more importance—as I think there is nothing more easy of attainment—in the conduct of the war than the regular and proper management of the transport service. In a mercantile State like this, or like the United States of America, such a service may be considered to be only part and parcel of the commercial system of the country; and if the Government had only consulted any of our great merchants, both as to the mode of taking up shipping and the manner of afterwards turning it to account, I am confident that the cost of conducting the communications with the army in the Crimea would have been greatly lightened. Of this fact I am convinced, if I only look at the mode in which the ships were hired and supplied with coal. That the Government should furnish the steam-vessels with coal may be perfectly necessary, in order to remove excuses for delay based upon alleged detention from the want of fuel; but the principle on which the coal has been supplied by the Government is very wasteful, and affords no check against abuse. If the merchant or the captain fills his vessel with fuel, the Government has no means of knowing whether he gave any part of his supply away or assisted any other merchant vessel with it. Now, I would suggest that the Government should contract with the owner for the use of his vessel, including the price of coal, and should reserve to itself the power of deducting an average rate—say, 50s.—for every ton that it supplied to the vessel. By this means it would be made the merchant's interest to economise the fuel and give none of it away. The cost of coal is a serious item in steam navigation, and a vessel of the power of the Himalaya or the Simla requires an amount of fuel to propel her of the value of not less than 9,000l. or 10,000l. per annum. I have mentioned the case of the Simla, which lay so long idle at Constantinople, although she was hired by the Government at a rate per month which would make 90,000l. a year. Now, I have taken the trouble, with the assistance of other persons who are competent authorities on such a subject, to calculate the amount that ought to be paid for the use of such a ship if fairly hired and required to find her own fuel, and I compute the sum at the rate of 46,750l. per annum. I do not say that errors may not have found their way into the public mind regarding the cost of the transport service to the country; but it is obviously most desirable that your Lordships should be set right respecting a branch of the public expenditure of the magnitude of 5,000,000l. a year. Within the last few days, I am sorry to say, I learn that the same profitless expenditure has been continued as has been going on from the outset. Public attention has been much aroused on the subject of the green coffee supplied to the army in the Crimea, and the Government have been anxious to correct the evil complained of as speedily as possible, by employing a ship to convey a cargo of roasted coffee to the East. A merchant found a ship for the Government, and as this is a case which illustrates the manner in which the merchants are able to deal with the Government, I will briefly relate the circumstances to your Lordships. The name of the steamer engaged for this service was the Telegraph, a vessel which was originally employed as a packet in plying between England and Ireland. The Telegraph is a fast vessel, and she had run a race with some of the boats on the Irish station. She was far too expensive for her work, and her owners were glad to get her chartered for a cargo by the Government. She was of 500 tons register, and about 900 tons builders' measurement, and of 440-horse power. Her consumption of coal was three tons per hour, and about 400 tons of cargo were considered quite enough' for her when engaged in the coasting trade. Her cost was 28,000l., and at what rate, then, did the Government hire her? Why, at 2,500l. per month, which would enable her owners in ten months to realise the whole value of the vessel! Well, the Telegraph was laden with coffee, and was to sail for the Crimea, and General Simpson was about to embark in her; but when he saw her, the gallant General refused to go out in such a ship, and he did not do it either;—indeed, the vessel did not go herself, for she was found so deeply laden with coffee that the water ran into her at the closet-tubes, and she had to be taken into dock. I believe, however, she sailed at last, but if she meets with southerly winds in the Atlantic, I dare say she will have to put in for coals at Vigo, and again at Malta; and after three or four stoppages of this kind she may arrive at Constantinople; but it is doubtful, after all, whether this much-wanted coffee will ever reach the troops. The facts I have mentioned are only samples of the occurrences that have so justly excited the public discontent and indignation. I do not assert that there is any ground, with our present knowledge, upon all these circumstances, to warrant us in passing any censure upon the Government; but I think it is necessary that we should be furnished with official information relating to these transactions; and to obtain that informa- tion, as I have stated, is the object of my present Motion for returns. The noble Earl then concluded by moving— That there be laid before this House—1, Return of the Number of Transports employed in carrying Troops and Munitions of War, between the 1st of November 1853 and the 1st of March 1855 inclusive: 2. The Name of each Vessel (Transport); distinguishing those purchased from those hired 3. her Tonnage under old and new Measurement, distinguishing Steam from Sailing vessels, 4. If Steam, Number of nominal and indicated Horse Power: 5. Showing the Amount of Tonnage occupied by Machinery, Coals, Crew, Water, Provisions, and Ship Stores: 6. Showing what Amount is left for Cargo: 7. Showing the Number of Tons of Coal consumed: 8. Showing if any Transport is under Agreement for Postal or any other Service previous to being taken up as a transport: 9. Show in the Amount paid for the Hiring of each Vessel per Month or per Year, with or without Coals: 10. How long a Period each Transport was hired for, and from what Date: 11. For what Service she was engaged: 12. Prom what Owner she was hired: 13. Showing whether any Alteration has been made in the Terms since first hired, and, if any, what Difference: 14. If Alterations have been made (or Fittings added) in the internal Arrangements of any Transport, describing the Alteration or Fitting, with the Vessel's Name: 15. At whose Expense the Alteration or Fitting has been made, and the Amount of the Expense incurred.

LORD PANMURE

My Lords, it was quite impossible for me when the noble Earl opposite gave notice of this Motion to anticipate all the statements that he intended to make on this occasion; but I readily give the noble Earl credit for having no other object in touching upon the topics to which he has referred than that of obtaining accurate information as to the matters to which they relate. I also fully admit that Parliament is entitled to the strictest account of the expenditure of the large sums which have been required for the transport service. To the production of the returns asked for by the noble Earl, I know of no objection; and, as he proposes to amend his Motion in some particulars, I shall be glad to confer with him with regard to those Amendments. The Government which preceded the one to which I have the honour to belong were quite sensible that in the hurry of sending out the expedition to the East errors might have been committed, and blame incurred by the persons whose duties were connected with the transport service. With the view of remedying those evils the Government appointed officers of their own to make special inquiries into the mismanagement in loading and unloading the transports to which the noble Earl has referred. Those officers have forwarded their reports to me this day, but I have not yet had an oppor- tunity of making myself acquainted with their contents. An inquiry is going on as to the whole subject, and there will be no difficulty in making public the result of that inquiry after the Government have had an opportunity of considering it. With regard to the chartering of steamers, I have made inquiries, and I am assured that those intrusted with these transactions made the bargains with their eyes open, fully aware of the difference between hiring by the register and by the gross tonnage; and I am assured, too, that the contract price upon the whole of the gross tonnage was much lower than it would have been if made upon the registered tonnage; so that, had the steamers been hired on the registered tonnage, they would have cost nominally a much larger figure per ton. With reference to the various points referred to by the noble Earl—such, for instance, as the cargo of boots and shoes sent out without invoice or notice—all these will be matters for inquiry. A stop has now been put to the recurrence of such things by the institution by the late First Lord of the Admiralty of a Transport Board, which will reduce the transport service to order and regularity. A gentleman from the mercantile community has been placed upon that Board, in order that it may have the benefit of the experience of the merchant service; and I confidently hope that the reform commenced by the late First Lord of the Admiralty will have the result of making the transport service more regular and more efficient. It must be remembered that we have not only had to transport, land, and re-transport our own army, but that we have also had to carry large quantities of men and stores for our allies—both the French and the Turks; everything was expected to be done, too, with the utmost rapidity; and, taking all things into consideration, though there may have been some deviation from the regular process of business transactions, and omissions and mistakes have been occasionally committed, I think your Lordships must confess the transport service has been on the whole efficiently executed. Every step, however, is being taken to remedy whatever was deficient, and to put matters on the best possible footing. Of course I have no hesitation to agree to the production of the returns for which the noble Earl has moved.

THE EARL OF DERBY

The noble Lord who has just sat down, having apologetically and fully admitted that there has been great neglect, great mismanagement, and very considerable abuse in relation to this subject, and having promised to produce the returns asked for by my noble Friend behind me—which returns will show the extent of that abuse, and which will inform us who are the men that are responsible—this, of course, is not a fitting opportunity for continuing the discussion. My only object now is to call attention to a statement which appeared in one of the last despatches of Lord Raglan, to the effect that the condition of the army was generally improving; but that there was one subject of complaint and suffering, inasmuch as the Commissariat had not received at that time a large amount of hay and forage which was expected from England. Now, I wish to ask the noble Lord whether he has ascertained the cause of this apparent neglect in the furnishing of the hay and forage for the small number of horses that remained in our army in the Crimea? and whether he thought that blame was to be attached to any individual for not furnishing this hay, and whether care has been taken to ensure a more regular supply?

LORD PANMURE

Before I answer the question of the noble Earl, I beg, in the first place, to deny that I have made an apologetic speech, or that I have admitted that great neglect and great abuses have existed in relation to this subject; and I trust that the noble Earl will not misinterpret what falls from me in future. In reference to the question of the supply of hay for our horses in the Crimea, the information I have to give the noble Earl is this:—No doubt, at the period at which Lord Raglan wrote, there was a deficiency of hay at Balaklava. I confess that that statement rather surprised me, because, if there is any one article more than another of which I felt assured there would be a regular supply, it was that of hay and forage; for I knew that my noble Friend who preceded me in office had taken the most perfect means for the supply of forage for our army. It happened, however, that within a day or two after the letter alluded to had been written by Lord Raglan, a large supply of hay and forage had arrived at Balaklava; and I have every reason to believe that measures have been taken to ensure a regular supply of forage at Balaklava at least every fortnight, and therefore there is not the slightest prospect of the army being distressed for want of it.

THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH

asked the noble Lord whether he did not think it more advisable to have the hay supplied by private contract? He apprehended that a great saving would be effected by adopting sash a course.

LORD PANMURE

said, he rather thought that the noble Earl was mistaken. He found, upon inquiry, that under the contracts entered into by the Government they had obtained hay at a cheaper rate than the ordinary contractors would be able to procure it.

VISCOUNT CANNING

said, there was one point mentioned by the noble Earl in his statement to which he wished to allude, With respect to his observations in reference to the postal services, he begged to assure the noble Earl, that not only in respect to the Cunard steamers, but to those of every other Company carrying mails whose vessels had been taken up as transports, there was a rateable reduction made from the postal subsidy. So far from the Messrs. Cunard receiving 200,000l. or 300,000l. for their postal services last year, they would only receive such a sum as was equivalent to the service they were able to perform with their reduced fleet.

On Question, agreed to.

House adjourned to Thursday next.