Lords Sitting of 20 March 1854

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Arbitration Law Amendment; Declaratory Suits.
2a Registration of Bills of Sale.
Reported.—Mutiny; Marine Mutiny; Exchequer Bills (£1,750,000).
3a Coasting Trade.

TESTAMENTARY JURISDICTION BILL— PETITION.
LORD BROUGHAMdesired especially to call the attention of his noble and learned Friend (the Lord Chancellor) to a petition he had to present from the Company of Merchants of the City of Edinburgh, upon a matter which concerned the Testamentary Jurisdiction Bill, now before a Select Committee. The petition prayed that upon the death of any person leaving movable property in England, Scotland, or Ireland, it shall not be necessary to procure letters of administration, probate, or confirmation, in the several counties. According to the law of this country, probate of a will obtained in England or in
992
Ireland had no operation in Scotland, and letters of confirmation in Scotland, which were tantamount to probate, had no legal operation either in Ireland or England. The consequence was, that if a testator were the owner of shares in banks, railways, assurance companies, or mines, in various parts of the United Kingdom, probate must be taken out in England and Ireland, as well as letters of confirmation in Scotland. The inconvenience was enormous. Supposing a Scotch testator possessed an interest, however small, in such companies in the different provinces of York and Canterbury, Dublin and Armagh, his representatives must not only take out probate, or letters of confirmation in Scotland, but must go to those four provinces of York and Canterbury, Dublin and Armagh, before they could administer the estate. These petitioners, who were a most respectable and important body of men, therefore, prayed that probate in England should have effect in Scotland, and, reciprocally, that letters of confirmation in Scotland should have operation in England and in Ireland. The petitioners called the attention of their Lordships to the fact, that the Legislature had already sanctioned what amounted to very nearly the same thing. In the Companies' Clauses Consolidation Act of Scotland exactly that arrangement was made—a certified extract of the probate or letters of administration granted in England was effectual to transfer all shares in railways or any other companies exactly in the same way as where probate or letters of administration had been taken out in Scotland. It so happened that here was just one of those blunders which resulted from legislating without due consideration; for the very next chapter—one was the 16th of the 8th Vict., and the other the 17th (the Companies' Clauses Consolidation Act of England)—was word for word the same as that of Scotland, with this omission, that it did not give the same advantage in England to administration taken out in Scotland, which they had given in Scotland to administrations taken out in England. It was utterly impossible such a state of things could be allowed to continue, and he trusted his noble and learned Friend would allow an addition to be made to the Testamentary Jurisdiction Bill which should effect that important alteration and improvement of the law. This was precisely analogous to the provisions contained in the Bill which he was happy to find had received the universal

993
concurrence of the other House of Parliament, to enable all judgments in one part of the United Kingdom to receive execution in all the other parts. Probate was in the nature of a judgment by a competent tribunal, and to make it effective in any part of the United Kingdom was merely applying the rule which had been recognised by the House of Commons in the Bill to which he alluded.
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, this question had been very much considered by the Commissioners; but they thought it impossible to overcome the many difficulties which, though they did not appear on the surface, actually existed. The law of wills was entirely different in Scotland, and the adjudication on wills in Scotland was really no more like that in England than adjudication on wills in France. With regard to Ireland, as jurisdiction was not confined to one court, probate on property of magnitude might be granted by some small diocesan court, without security that due investigation had taken place. He hoped when the present Bill for England, confining jurisdiction to some one court, had passed, a similar Bill would be introduced for Ireland, so as to put both countries on the same footing. He saw great difficulties, under any circumstances, in acceding to the prayer of this petition; but the matter should be well considered, and he should be ready to attend to any suggestions from his noble and learned Friend.
LORD BROUGHAMexpressed his dissent from the opinion of his noble and learned Friend as to the law of wills in Scotland being so entirely different from the law in England; and reiterated the precedent which the Companies' Clauses Consolidation (Scotland) Act afforded for the alteration prayed.
Petition read, and referred to the Select Committee on the Testamentary Jurisdiction Bill.

LETTERS TO OFFICERS OF THE BALTIC FLEET.
EARL GREYwished to put a question to the noble Viscount the Postmaster General, of which he had not given him notice, respecting the transmission of letters to the fleet which had been despatched to the Baltic. His attention had been attracted to an announcement that the packet rate of ls. 8d. per ½ oz. would be charged on all letters addressed to officers serving on board the fleet in the Baltic. Their Lord-
994
ships would feel, with himself, that to officers engaged in a service of that kind there was no such comfort as easy communication with their friends at home; and, undoubtedly, it appeared to him desirable that letters should be conveyed to them at as cheap a rate as they were conveyed from one part of the kingdom to the other. There was no reason why this should not be so, since there would be no expense actually incurred, because the letters would be sent by the Queen's vessels, employed in keeping up the communication between Her Majesty's Government and the fleet in the Baltic. He, therefore, begged to ask his noble Friend if he could give any explanation of that announcement, and whether he could hold out any hope that the rate charged on letters to officers serving on board this fleet during the present expedition would be reduced?
VISCOUNT CANNINGsaid, he was very glad the noble Earl had put the question, as he had no doubt the announcement was calculated to create great disappointment. The facts were these:—By the Act 3 & 4 Vict., which regulates the charges on certain letters, the Postmaster General was bound to charge on all letters to the north of Europe the old packet rate of 1s. 8d. the ½ oz. By another Act of Parliament all letters forwarded by the Queen's ships were to be treated as letters forwarded by packets. All letters, therefore, sent to the Baltic fleet by the Queen's ships were charged, without there being any power in the Postmaster General to remit it, at 1s. 8d. the ½ oz. The only power the Postmaster General had was, by warrant from the Treasury, to reduce the rate generally upon letters sent to particular parts of the world. He had lately applied to the Treasury for a warrant empowering the Post Office to reduce the charge upon officers' letters to 6d., and to allow letters to and from the soldiers and sailors of the fleet to be conveyed in any of Her Majesty's vessels at the low rate of 1d. When these arrangements were carried into effect he did not think there would be much reason for complaint.
EARL GREYwas glad to hear that his noble Friend proposed to reduce the charge upon officers' letters to 6d., which was all that could be done without the aid of Parliament; but he trusted that, considering the nature of the service upon which the officers were employed—considering also that many of them were poor men, and that the conveyance of their letters would

995
put the Government to no expense whatever—the Post Office would apply to Parliament for power to transmit these letters with an ordinary penny stamp, as they would do from one part of the kingdom to another. They should all feel that the officers were engaged in an arduous and dangerous service, that they had great claims upon the sympathy of the Legislature, and that the least which could be done for them would be to grant them such an indulgence as he had suggested.
House adjourned till To-morrow.