§ LORD MONTEAGLEmoved, That the Committee (which stood appointed for this Day) be put off to Tuesday next.
THE DUKE OF ARGYLLwished to state, that since the discussion on this Bill the other night, he had seen deputations from the various Universities, and also from the various licensing bodies connected with the medical profession, but he did not find that any of these gentlemen were in favour of this Bill; they all objected, without exception, to it, either upon one ground or another. They thought that the London University had not a better claim to the privileges proposed to be conferred upon it by this Bill than the other Universities in different parts of the kingdom. He (the Duke of Argyll) had no objection to granting to the graduates of the University of London degrees entitling them to practise medicine; but he contended that if they adopted this principle they ought to go further, and give them the right also to practise surgery, pharmacy, and all the other branches of medicine. He understood that there was 894 a doubt whether the word "physic" would not include surgery and pharmacy as well as pure physic, and whether, by this means, the Bill would not have a larger operation than was intended. He meant no disrespect in any way to the London University by the disapproval he felt bound to express as to the present measure, and he would take that opportunity of expressing the sincere gratification he experienced on a late occasion, when present at the distribution of the prizes at the London University, at seeing some of the young men carry away the highest prizes in the most exalted department of medical science. There was nothing in the present Bill which was in any way calculated to effectually carry out the great principles of medical reform, and the difference of qualifications that were required by the several Universities would throw almost insuperable difficulties in the way of carrying the present measure into effect. Again, he could not understand, if we admitted the graduates of London and Durham Universities to the benefit of this Bill, upon what principle it was the graduates of the Dublin and Scotch Universities were to be excluded. He did not think there was anything in the argument that this Bill was only the fulfilment of the pledge given to the founders of the London University; and, in Committee, he should certainly move the insertion of a clause to provide that the Universities of Scotland and Ireland should possess the same powers as it was proposed to confer on the London University by this Bill. The great objection, however, that he had to the Bill was, that it prejudged the great question of medical reform, and did so in order to favour the University of London, to the exclusion and injury of other and the older Universities.
§ LORD MONTEAGLEsaid, that the only operation of this Bill would be to give the graduates of the University of London not a general right to practise, but only the same privileges which were possessed by the graduates of the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. The Bill was the fulfilment of a pledge, made at the time of the foundation of the University of London by the Government of the day, that the new University should be treated with the same favour as the others. It had been supported in its passage through the other House by the noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and every Member of the Government who 895 was present; he could not, therefore, understand the noble Duke's opposition to it. He should not be so earnest in support of the Bill if he were not convinced that it would not in any way interfere with the great principles of medical reform, and if he did not believe that it would be instrumental in effecting a great improvement, without doing injury to any one.
THE DUKE OF ARGYLLsaid, he bad forgot to mention, that only yesterday he had had an interview with the President and Fellows of the College of Physicians, who strongly objected to the Bill, on the ground that it included much more than appeared upon the face of it.
LORD WYNFORDfeared that the partial attempt at legislation contemplated by this Bill would merely prejudice the larger and more necessary measures of medical reform.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEsaid, that although the discussion then going on was not one intended to lead to a division, but more in the nature of a conversation than anything else, yet be was induced to take part in it, because he was enabled to confirm the statements both of the noble Lord on the cross-benches (Lord Mont-eagle) and his noble Friend near him. As to what the noble Lord had said about the London University, there was no doubt that the expectation bad always been held out to it of receiving the advantages which this Bill professed to give; and, as far as medicine was concerned, sharing the same amount of favour as the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. The University of London, having now undeniably proved itself entitled to the approval of the public by the very excellent way in which it had educated the men who resorted to it in the highest branches of medical science, and having, in fact, turned out better scholars in this respect than either the Universities of Oxford or Cambridge, claimed the privileges we had promised to extend to her, and which we could not now, with any grace or justice, refuse to give. He should, while paying a just tribute to the London University, be sorry to throw any disparagement upon other medical and educational bodies; but in these matters praise should be given when fairly earned. As to what the noble Duke had said about the fear which existed lest the words of this Bill might give a more extended power than was contemplated, there was no doubt such a fear did exist, but it could easily be removed by some clause being 896 inserted in the Bill to limit its operation.
Motion agreed to.
House adjourned to Monday next.