MEDICAL GRADUATES (UNIVERSITY OF LONDON) BILL. (Hansard, 1 August 1854)

§ LORD MONTEAGLE
moved, that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill, the object of which was to extend the rights enjoyed by the graduates of the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge, in respect of the practice of physic to the graduates of the Universities of London and Durham.

THE DUKE OF ARGYLL
said, that he had no objection to this Bill, though it might, perhaps, have been well introduced in connection with the larger question of medical reform. He had given notice of his intention to move the insertion of words extending the provisions of the Bill to the Scotch Universities; but he was, at all events, anxious to provide that graduates of the Scotch Universities should no longer be under penalties for practising as physicians in England. Since he had given that notice he had had a very large number of communications from medical men of various classes, and from Professors of the Universities of Glasgow and Edinburgh, who had pointed out to him the fact, that a large number of very eminent medical men in England had nothing but a Scotch degree. Some of these gentlemen were of such eminence that they had received the honour of knighthood, yet every one of them was liable to penalties; and though the penalties were not easily recoverable, yet it was felt as an indignity that these gentlemen should be legally liable to penalties. All he wished to do was to insert a clause in this Bill to the effect, that the graduates of the Universities of Scotland should be put on the same legal standing as those of other Universities, as physicians—not as apothecaries, nor as general practitioners, but as physicians. The Durham University had been inserted in the Bill in the House of Commons, which University, he believed, had never conferred a single medical degree, and if that University 1065 had been introduced, he was at a loss to understand bow the Scotch Universities, they being the great schools of medicine, ought to be omitted.

§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE
was understood to oppose the extension of this Bill to the graduates of the Scotch Universities. He admitted, indeed, that if the University of Durham were included in the Bill, that would furnish an argument for such a course. But he thought it would be undesirable to include the University of Durham, because no one could contend that it was, at present, a school of medicine. He hoped that before long a measure might be passed to establish a uniform standard of medical qualification; but, in the meantime, he did not see that any harm could be done by passing this Bill, which simply did an act of justice by giving the graduates of the London University the privileges which they had been entitled to expect since the foundation of that institution. It was indeed said, that there was danger lest, by an implication from an old Statute of Henry VIII., this Bill might be held to extend to the practice of surgery as well as medicine. He thought, however, that this might easily be provided against by the insertion of a few words in the Bill.

LORD CAMPBELL
said, that what was wanted was that the graduates of the Universities of Edinburgh and Glasgow—the most renowned schools of medicine in the world—should have equal privileges with the graduates of the University of London, and they wanted no privilege whatever that was enjoyed by the graduates of other Universities. He could not understand why the privileges of other Universities should not be extended to those of Edinburgh and Glasgow.

LORD WYNFORD
said, he was not hostile to the present Bill, but objected to partial legislation on a subject of so much importance. What was wanted was, that every man who obtained the right to practise should bring with hint to the neighbourhood in which he settled some guarantee that he was a proper and safe practitioner. He recommended the Government to consider the general question during the recess, and to bring in a Bill next Session dealing with the whole subject.

§ THE EARL OF GALLOWAY
thought, that enough had been said to show that it was desirable to postpone the first clause 1066 of the Bill, in order that the subject should be considered in all its branches. A measure might then be passed next Session which should, embrace everything desirable to be legislated upon in regard to this subject.

§ THE EARL OF DERBY
said, his attention had not been directed to the Bill till he came down to the House that evening; but the conversation which had taken place was sufficient to induce him to agree with the noble Lord on the cross-benches that the House was hardly in a position to legislate on the subject. The subject of a licence to practise arising out of a degree granted by a University was one worthy of the consideration of the Government, and a measure on the subject ought not to be introduced into either House without their sanction. This measure had been introduced by a private Member; and he could say, in passing, that he believed that the University of London had better opportunities of being a good medical school, and therefore was more entitled to confer degrees, than either Oxford or Cambridge; and he did not believe that Oxford would exhibit any jealousy at such a privilege being granted to the London University. But this Bill was introduced into the House of Commons by a private Member; and another private Member said, if you give this privilege to the University of London, I claim it for the University of Durham; and the House of Commons having good-naturedly acceded to this claim, then came the noble Duke in this House, and demanded that the Scottish Universities should be put on a footing of perfect equality with the English Universities. Observe how that altered the whole character of the measure, which was now of far greater extent than when it was first introduced, and an entirely new question had been raised—namely, whether licences from the Universities in England, Ireland, and Scotland respectively should not give authority to those possessing them to practise all over the United Kingdom. He was not saying whether or not it was right to confer the privileges on one University or another, as Glasgow, St. Andrews, Aberdeen, or Dublin; or whether you should go on inserting these different Universities one after another in the Bill, or whether you should pass an exceptional Bill for the University of London alone. But what he thought was, that you should deal with the whole question in a great measure; and though the noble Marquess 1067 (the Marquess of Lansdowne) said that a grant of this privilege to the London University could not interfere with future legislation, he could not help thinking that practically it would so interfere, and that you ought not to confer on one University privileges which might tend to interfere with legislation hereafter. This subject ought to be dealt with as a Government measure, and not be left in the hands of individual Members, who dealt with it by putting in the claims of different Universities, which were allowed or not, not according to a definite or fixed principle, but according to the caprice of the House of Commons or their Lordships' House, as they happened to be worked upon by the case presented to them. He should not himself take the sense of the House on the question of going into Committee; but if the noble Lord on the cross-benches made a Motion to delay the Bill he should vote with him.

§ LORD MONTEAGLE
said, that the Bill was supported by the Secretary for the Home Department in the other House.

§ THE EARL OF DERBY
I said it was not a Government Bill, and that observation was cheered by noble Lords opposite; and yet my noble Friend says that it has been taken up by the Government.

§ LORD MONTEAGLE
It was taken up by them in the other House, and every Member of the Government voted for it.

LORD CAMPBELL
said, he could not believe it possible that the Government would support such a measure. He should follow the example of the noble Earl (the Earl of Derby), and, although he should not move the rejection of the Bill, if any noble Lord made such a Motion, he would vote for it.

LORD WYNFORD
said, although he had no hostility to the measure, yet, because that he wished that the general subject should be taken into consideration before legislation took place, he would move that the House go into Committee on the Bill this day three months.