The EARL of DONOUGHMOREwished to draw the attention of the First Lord of the Treasury to the statement made by a right hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) in the other House, with reference to the contemplated reduction of the Irish revenue police force. He trusted the proposed reduction would be carried out, for the Irish revenue police were a body for the existence of which there was positively no authority whatever. The constitutional law was, that no troops were to be maintained in this country without the authority of Parliament; and the revenue police were an armed force that had never been authorised by Parliament. His next objection was, that their number was insufficient for the prevention of illegal distillation. It was highly desirable that the Irish revenue police should be abolished, and its duties transferred to the constabulary. It was said to be the intention of the Government to increase the spirit duties in Ireland. A similar proposal was made by the Government of Sir Robert Peel, but the increase was abandoned because it was found that so much illicit distillation took place that the revenue sustained con- 1232 siderable loss, and the country was greatly demoralised. He trusted that, now that a similar intention of increasing the spirit duties was announced, the revenue police force would either be made efficient, or that the Government would consolidate it with the Irish constabulary, who were a very efficient body of men.
§ The EARL of ABERDEENsaid, the noble Earl was under some misapprehension with respect to the declaration made in the other House by his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. No decision had been taken on this subject by Her Majesty's Government, It was under the consideration of the Government, and no decision would be adopted until they had given the matter great attention. There was a conviction that great care would be necessary before adding to the duties now discharged by the constabulary those which were at present performed by the revenue police force. At present the constabulary enjoyed, not only the respect but the goodwill of the people of Ireland; and the addition of other duties to those they now performed, might materially impair their present efficiency. The subject was now under consideration, and some measure might be produced which might render the existing revenue police force more effective than it was at this moment; but nothing would be done hastily.
§ LORD MONTEAGLEwas astonished to hear the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Donoughmore) state that the Irish revenue police force was an illegally constituted body of men. The truth was, the existence of an excise police in Ireland was much older than any of their Lordships whom he had the honour to address, and for a long series of years it had been as notorious in Ireland as the existence of a garrison in the city of Dublin. Many years ago it was discovered that an armed excise force was necessary in Ireland; but during the time of his (Lord Monteagle's) tenure of office at the Treasury, it was evident that reform was required, inasmuch as frequent conflicts and occasional loss of life occurred in conflicts between the excise officers and the peasantry, owing to the want of organisation in that force. He flattered himself the case was now otherwise. Since the revenue force had been reorganised, those conflicts had been of rare occurrence. He hoped his noble Friend (the Earl of Aberdeen) would see no objection to produce the documentary evi- 1233 dence bearing on this subject, in order that their Lordships might see in what mode that force was now organised, and what was its present condition. That would only be an act of justice to the force itself. He was glad the Government had not come to a final decision to abolish the revenue force, or to allow it to merge in the constabulary, for the question involved considerations of great importance. At the time the constabulary force was organised, Parliament agreed, although the terms were rather unpopular with the country gentlemen, that the latter were to be restrained from making use of the police for preserving game and fisheries, for collecting tithes or rents; and the Government pledged themselves, on the other hand, that their primary duty should be to preserve the public peace. It was rightly felt that to employ them for any other purpose would be to destroy their utility for the important purpose for which they were organised. He thought that the collection of the revenue was one of those purposes for which it would be found most dangerous to employ them. He should be glad to see illicit distillation put down effectually; but even this advantage might be purchased too dearly if, by employing the constabulary for this purpose, the Government should disorganise the best police force of its class that ever existed in any country. If the Government employed the constabulary to discharge the duties of excisemen, they would be rendered as ineffectual for preserving the peace as for collecting the revenue. The means of corruption by gifts both of money and spirits would be so much increased if the same force had to discharge both duties, that practices of the most fatal kind might be expected to follow such a change. If necessary, let the Government add to the number of the revenue police. Let them pay for the collection of the revenue all that was required; but let them not run the risk of disorganising an excellent civil force by employing them in revenue purposes. He would take the liberty of moving hereafter for copies of any report or communications made by the Commissioners of Excise to the Treasury touching the establishment of the revenue police under Colonel Brereton, and copies of any reports made to the Board of Inland Revenue, showing the present state of the establishment. This evidence would establish the statement he had now made to their Lordships.
§ House adjourned to Monday next.