HL Deb 18 March 1853 vol 125 cc429-33

On Motion that the House do adjourn until Monday the 4th of April,

The EARL of DERBY said

Before this Motion is agreed to, I wish to address one or two observations to the House. Although the holidays proposed are of a rather longer duration than usual, more especially considering the early period at which Easter falls, yet I offer no objection to the length of the proposed adjournment, nor to the period to which the noble Earl proposes to adjourn. Indeed, if the noble Earl had proposed, in accordance with what has been the usual practice, that we should adjourn for three or four days beyond the time fixed upon for the reassembling of the House of Commons, I should have seen no reason for offering any objection to such a course. I should be glad however, and I have no doubt the House would be glad, to be assured by the noble Earl, that it is not his intention for the first three or four days after our meeting to proceed with any business of importance, but that we meet with the view of carrying on the legal business of the House, rather than with the intention of dealing with any measures of great political importance. I wish to take this opportunity also of repeating to the noble Earl opposite the question which I put to him at the commencement of the Session, and to which I was at that time unsuccessful in obtaining an answer—namely, what measures are likely, upon the part of Her Majesty's Government, to be submitted to the consideration of the House in the course of the present Session? At that time the noble Earl declined to give me any information with regard to the proposed measures of the Government; but he informed us that in a short period his noble and learned Friend upon the woolsack would state what were the intentions of Her Majesty's Government with regard to the great measures of legal reform:—and, accordingly, a few days afterwards that noble and learned Lord did enter very much at large, and in a speech of great ability, into the consideration of that question. Beginning with stating that upon one question the noble and learned Lord who had preceded him had done so much that nothing more remained to be done; adding that upon another question there was a commission already existing for the purpose of making certain inquiries; and that upon a third it was necessary to obtain further information before proceeding with legislation—he came to the conclusion at last that the amount of legislative progress in the matter of legal reform would be in the course of the present Session of the slightest possible description. In point of fact, the noble and learned Lord has taken upon himself, apart from legislation, a task of very considerable importance and duration—one which he confesses he took upon himself in a fit of romantic enthusiasm; but which I can only say I hope he may have health and life to carry through, for if he have, he certainly will be blessed with a longer period of existence than ordinarily falls to the lot of man. With regard to legislation, the noble and learned Lord has confined himself to the reintroduction of a measure which has been introduced for the last twenty years into this House, for the registration of assurances, which was rejected last year and in former years by the House of Commons, and with regard to which the learned and noble Lord has proposed one important modification which appears to be contradictory to the main principle of the Bill; for, the main principle being the publicity of the registration, he introduces a clause by which that object may be defeated, and people may be able to keep their deeds secret. However, that Bill is all that has been done, and I must confess that the able statement of my noble and learned Friend the late Lord Chancellor went far to shake my confidence, not in the desirability but in the practicability of that measure, and made me think that very probably it may not very undeservedly meet with the same fate that it did last year, and consequently that the amount of legal reform may this Session be absolutely nil. In the other House of Parliament estimates have been passed for the naval and military services founded upon the amount of force which the late Government laid down, and which the present Government, I am happy to think, do not deem it necessary to alter. Further than that, a Bill has been introduced in the other House to enable persons of the Jewish persuasion to sit in Parliament. That is a measure also which has been rejected before by the House of Lords, and it is one which I trust the House of Lords will reject again. In that respect, again, the amount of legislation will be probably nil. Another Bill bas been introduced to which I have the strongest possible objection—I mean one intended to interfere, as I think most unjustly and most unconstitutionally, with the Protestant Church in Canada; and these two Bills, so far as I know, constitute the whole programme of the legislation of the present Session. We are also told that in the course of the present Session, we do not know when, the noble Lord the leader of the House of Commons will not bring in any distinct measure, but will inform the House of the course which the Government intend to pursue upon the great subject of education. The Reform Bill, which excited a great deal of expectation among a portion of the community, will not, it is announced, be brought forward in the course of the present Session; and with regard to the education question, the noble Lord has insinuated that it is not his intention to bring forward any very extensive or comprehensive scheme. We have also been told—I hope erroneously—that it is the intention of the Government permanently to legislate upon the affairs of India during the present Session. This is all that has yet been announced on the part of the Government as the business which is to occupy the attention of Parliament during the present Session. If there are other measures which it is the intention of Government to introduce, I think that the time has now arrived—now that we are about to adjourn for the Easter holidays—when this House of Parliament should be informed as to the nature of the business to which their attention is likely to be directed; and I am very anxious that the same result should not occur this year that has upon former occasions—that Bills should not be neglected to be brought in at an early period, and then at a later period be brought in without previous notice—that they should not be passed at the eleventh hour through the House of Commons, and then be sent up to your Lordships' House, who, having been occupied during four or five months doing nothing, are then to be called upon to legislate on subjects of the greatest importance at the very close of the Session, and when very few Peers are present. If the Government intend to bring forward no measures of importance, let us be told so at once. If they do intend to bring forward measures of importance, let them do so without delay; let this House take its fair share of the business, and let not all the business be huddled in together at the close of the Session. If this be important with regard to anything, it is particularly so with regard to India, for Indian affairs are now beginning to excite great general interest in the public mind. The noble Earl has announced his intention of permanently legislating upon a portion of that question in the present Session; but if he has determined so to legislate, he must have done so without waiting for, and consequently without being influenced by, the examination, evidence, and report of the Committee which has been appointed upon Indian Affairs; and there can therefore be no reason why that portion of the measure upon which the Government have made up their minds should not be placed before Parliament with the least possible delay. I am anxious to know what measures it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to introduce in the present Session of Parliament. I am anxious to receive an assurance that whatever measures are introduced shall be placed before your Lordships in due time, and that we shall not again have a recurrence of the procrastination of all the important business of the Session in this House within the last two or three weeks of the Session of Parliament.

The EARL of ABERDEEN

Although the course which the noble Earl has taken appears to me to be altogether unusual, I can assure him that he need be under no apprehension that this House will not have its full share of the business that is likely to occupy the attention of the Legislature during the present Session, or that measures will not be introduced in due time to afford ample opportunity for deliberation. I shall give due notice of the Bills to be introduced into this House; and I do not think myself at all called upon, concurrently with that promise of full notice, to say more at this time upon the subject of the measures to be introduced. The noble Earl has alluded to the large subject of Education. Upon that I can state that notice will be given on the first day of our reassembling. Generally speaking, whether introduced in the House of Commons or in this House, full time will be allowed for the consideration of all the measures to be proposed. As to our meeting on the same day as the House of Commons, certainly it is not for the purpose of entering into any business beyond that of the legal proceedings, but it is more for the purpose of giving notice at an early date of some of the measures which the Government intend to bring forward.

House adjourned to Monday the 4th of April next.