LORD BROUGHAMmoved an Address for a return showing the amount for which plaints were entered, in the County Court of Middlesex, holden at Uxbridge, from 1st January to the 31st December 1852. He had before called their Lordships' attention to this subject, and shown that what he meant by fees was the tax levied on the suitors in the form of fees paid on various proceedings in those courts; but the sums he had mentioned did not include the fees paid to counsel or solicitors, or attorneys, but were the simple fees payable under the Act of Parliament, which the officers of the court were not to blame for taking, for they were obliged by law to take them. Some controversy had occurred with regard to what he had said on a former occasion. It was supposed that he had said that the fees paid amounted to 25 per cent on the sums sued for. The fact was that the fees thus paid in 1851 amounted to 272,000l, which on 1,600,000l., the sums sued for—amounted to between 16 and 17 per cent. The fees received were divisible into three portions — First, they were paid in respect of sums for which judgments had been obtained; secondly, on sums where no judgments had been obtained, but the money bad been paid into court before the case reached judgment; and, thirdly, where the money was paid immediately on the suit being brought and the case going into court, and where there had been no other proceedings, and no judgment. He had moved for this return from the Uxbridge County, Court because he understood that it presented a fair average of the payment of fees in those proportions. It appeared by the return that on the money paid into court without judgment being obtained, the amount of fees paid was about 11 per cent; the sum being about 100,000l., something above 10,000l. had been taken for fees in the cases settled out of court. In cases where there was no judgment and no money paid into court, it was only 6¼ percent; and in the cases which proceeded to judgment, and in which the money was paid in consequence of the judgment of the court, it was 22¼ per cent. It was impossible to deny that this was one of those great abuses — those grievous extortions — to 254 which the subjects of this country were exposed in the administration of justice. The amount thus extorted from poor suitors in fees, excluding the execution fees, which the parties brought upon themselves by their contumacy in not obeying the orders of the court, was 240,000l., the gross amount, including those fees, being 270,000l. This evil he trusted to see speedily remedied, and that these courts would offer, as they were intended to do, the means of obtaining cheap and speedy justice.
LORD CAMPBELLsaid, he did not rise to controvert the opinions of his noble and learned Friend on this subject; but he wished to take this opportunity of making an explanation in reference to some observations that had fallen from his noble and learned Friend on a previous occasion on the subject of the regulation of fees in the county courts by the Judges in Westminster-hall. Surely his noble and learned Friend did not mean to say that the Judges in Westminster-hall entertained any jealousy towards the County Courts; on the contrary, they all looked upon those courts with feelings of kindness for relieving them from an amount of business which, with all their endeavours, it would be impossible for them to transact. He could say of his own court that business flowed in so rapidly, that though he and his brother Judges sat late every day during the last term, many cases remained over at the end. No Judge, nor any officer of the superior courts, could have an interest in preventing business from going to the County Courts. As the law now stood, the fees in the county courts were thus regulated. There were five Judges of those courts named by the Lord Chancellor to fix upon a scale of fees, which scale was to be submitted for the sanction of three of the Judges of the Superior Courts. The five County Court Judges had been appointed for this duty by his noble and learned Friend (Lord St. Leonards); they had made out their scale, and it was to be submitted to his learned Friends the Lord Chief Baron, Mr. Justice Crompton, and Mr. Baron Martin. Other learned persons had given their attention to the subject, with the view of doing what was best for the benefit of the suitors in the courts in question. He could safely say that all his Colleagues on the Bench were anxious to do all they could for the benefit of those suitors; but while they took care that the fees exacted were not exorbitant, it was their duty to see that 255 they were sufficient to remunerate professional men for the services rendered. He was confident that when the scale was given out, it would be such as to give satisfaction to every member of the community.
LORD BROUGHAMsaid, he was very far from suspecting that there was any jealousy entertained by the Judges of the Superior Courts against the County Courts. What he stated on the occasion to which his noble and learned Friend alluded, was that there was ground for alarm that a step might be taken by the Judges in confirming a certain scale of fees which had been submitted to them, coining from two taxing officers of the Court, and recommended to the five Judges of the County Courts, but which they had not had time to consider, and that such scale, if passed, would have the effect of driving a large amount of business from the County Courts. For instance, that scale recommended that the fees in cases under the optional clause— though the amount litigated might amount to 10,000l. or 100,000l.—should not exceed those charged in the Superior Courts for the very smallest class of cases; the consequence of which would have been that no attorney could be expected to recomment his clients to avail themselves of the optional clause, because the fees allowed would not be sufficient to remunerate him for his trouble.
LORD CAMPBELLmust protest against the course taken by his noble and learned Friend. The Legislature had provided that the scale of fees should be prepared by a Commission, and laid before three of the Judges of the Supreme Courts; but his noble and learned Friend was taking upon himself the functions which the law had conferred upon those Judges, and upon them alone. His noble and learned Friend ought not to proceed on rumour—he should wait till the Act was accomplished, and, when he had seen the final judgment of the Judges, it would be time enough to bring the matter before their Lordships; but to bring it forward now was both premature and irregular.
LORD BROUGHAMwould not allow his noble and learned Friend to charge him with being either premature or irregular. He was, in the most rigorous construction of the term, regular, and he had in no way interfered with the functions of the three learned Judges. But, if those three learned Judges had divested themselves of the authority which they had to fix the fees—
LORD BROUHAMhoped they had only called in assistance. But if they had been delegating to taxing officers the settling of those fees, and afterwards serving the County Court Judges with a copy of the scale which had been made out, and if they did not pause upon the subject, then they would shut up, to a certain extent, the County Courts from suitors. It was, no doubt, possible that he might be mistaken. It was very possible that a different scale of fees might be adopted from that to which he had adverted. If so, all objection would be obviated; but, if they were to abide by that scale, then he had no hesitation in saying that the greatest harm would be done to the County Courts.
The LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that when his noble and learned Friend mentioned the subject some ten days ago, he thought the best course he could take would be to communicate with the learned Chief Baron, and ask him in what state the matter stood; and from that learned Judge he had received the most satisfactory explanation. Under the Act of Parliament the question of the scale of fees went, in the first instance, to the five Judges of the County Courts appointed for the purpose. They stated what they thought the fees should be, and their opinion was submitted to three Judges of the Snperior Courts. What step could those Judges take to enable them to come to a satisfactory conclusion? There was no subject, perhaps, upon which they were less able themselves to form an opinion than whether 6s. 8d. or 13s. 4d. should be the remuneration for certain services. Naturally, therefore, they referred the matter to their own taxing officers; and, having received their report, they sent it to the County Court Judges, telling them, if they approved of it, to come at a particular hour to have it confirmed. But that did not imply that if they did not approve of the scale, as revised by the taxing officers, that they would not be heard against it. That was the course that had been taken, and that would be followed; and nothing would be done in the way of final confirmation until a scale had been devised satisfactory to all parties; or, if that was found to he impossible, then the Judges would perform their duty by fixing a scale according to the best information they could obtain. He admitted that it would be wrong to fix such a scale as would dis- 257 courage professional men from carrying cases of a large amount into the County Courts; but then it should be recollected, that as the duties in those cases which were brought there under the optional clause were light, the remuneration ought not to be high.
§ Motion agreed to.
§ House adjourned till To-morrow.