§ THE EARL of HARDWICKErose, according to notice, to draw their Lordships' attention to the Order in Council of the 25th of June, 1851, bearing on the promotion and retirement of Officers of the Navy. The noble Earl said his Motion had no reference to the present Government, who had nothing to do with the Order in Council in question. Their Lordships would remember that at the time when the order in question was brought under the notice of the public, he had taken great objection to it in this House; and his present purpose was to try and induce Her Majesty's present Government to look again generally into the order, either for the purpose of rescinding it, or amending it in such a way as that justice might be 2 done to the officers in Her Majesty's service. In order, however, to obviate the objection that nothing had been done to revise the order when he himself was a Member of Her Majesty's late Government, he would at once say that his noble Friend had laid it down as a rule that matters requiring the most urgent attention should be first attended to; and until the decision of the country had been received, and it was ascertained clearly that Lord Derby would or would not continue to hold the reins, no details on Government would be interfered with. But if the late Government had continued in office he should have done in the Cabinet what he now proposed to do in their Lordships' House, namely, to call attention to what he considered the importance of that order, and also to its inefficacy for its proposed object. The order had reference, in the first place, to the instruction of midshipmen; secondly, to lieutenants and commanders; and, thirdly, as to post captains. Now, there could be no doubt that, in the early stages of the service, it was right that officers should receive such instruction as should enable 3 them hereafter usefully to serve their country, and he, therefore, had no intention to direct any attention to the first branches of the order. But to what he wished particularly to point was the order regulating the service of post captains to enable them to receive the rank of admirals upon the active list. The result of the order was this, that they must serve six years in time of peace, four years in time of war, and five years in the time of war and peace combined, in command of a rated ship. That was the sole and entire test of the ability of an officer, and, therefore, they had simply to serve that period of time to enable them to become active admirals. Now, there could be no doubt that the intention of the order was perfectly just, as well as its object perfectly clear, and that was to endeavour to place upon the list of admirals for active service young, active, and intelligent men, who were practised in their profession; and if that effect had been completely produced, he (the Earl of Hardwicke) could have no objection to its continuance; but he had always felt that it would be both productive of injustice, and inefficacious for its end. The injustice of it lay in this—that while it was desired that an office should serve in a rated ship, no rated ship was provided for him. An officer having entered the service, might expend the best part of his life in it; he might serve the best apprenticeship possible—he might distinguish himself in the procession by his zeal and activity—he might see service and might rise rapidly; but having attained a certain rank, he might not succeed in getting, a rated ship for six years, so that when at the top of the list, time door was shut in his face, and he was in fact dismissed from active service. On the other hand, although another party might not have very much distinguished himself, as in all professions there were were men of various abilities, if he happened to be possessed of powerful interest, from the simple fact of having commanded a rated ship for the requisite number of years, he would receive the appointment of admiral on the active list—and perhaps it was well for him to explain to their Lordships that the term rated ship implied all vessels from the smallest frigate up to the highest class line-of-battle ships. Well, since that was the case, he was prepared to maintain that the Order in Council had failed to carry out its own object, for it permitted a captain who had never commanded a line-of battle ship, and who consequently could 4 never have fitted himself for those duties of the profession which the order contemplated, to obtain the rank of admiral on the active list—namely, that of sailing in the line of battle, and being practised in the manœuvres of a fleet. Thus, for instance, if, many years ago, an officer had commanded a frigate for some five or six years in time of peace, he was to this fact indebted for his promotion to the rank of an active admiral; while, on the other hand, one who had served for two years in a line-of-battle ship, and two or three in Frigates, and who had been constantly practised in all naval evolutions, was removed to the reserved list. Now, he contended that alone was sufficient evidence of the failure of the Order in Council. But he wished to call their Lordships' attention to another point, which bore upon the civil portion of the service. By one of these Orders in Council any officer having been at the head of a dockyard, a hospital, or any civil establishment of the Crown relating to the Navy, was thereby entitled to take his place upon the active list, and was competent to receive the command of a fleet. The order directed that the time passed in that service might be reckoned as so much sea-time passed afloat. That rule was, he believed, intended to apply immediately to the dockyards and victualling yards, and not to hospitals; and yet he knew of three distinguished officers who had served their time as superintendents of hospitals, who had been placed on the active list, which appeared to him to be a flagrant injustice. He wished, then, to know what had been the result of the order of 1851, and what had been the practice following on it? Whether had that practice produced on the list a body of young and active officers, who might be supposed from their youth to be more energetic and more able to command fleets; and whether the result of it had been to place upon the retired list the names of the old officers whose years justified and rendered necessary their retirement? He himself was able to testify, however, the effect of the order on the last sixteen admirals on the active list, and to compare them with the last sixteen on the reserved list. He found that the sum of ages reached 1,027 years on the retired list; and sixteen upon the active list. whose united ages were not less than 1,038 years, so that there was a small balance against the activity of the active List, and there had been placed upon the 5 active list a larger number of aged officers than on the retired list. And looking over the promotions of the last two years, be found on one side of the retired list that an officer of 60 years of age was placed against one of 68 on the active list. Again, one of 63 against one of 67, one of 59 against 60, and one of 59 against 70. It was quite plain, therefore, that the Order in Council could not be tested by the superior ability or activity of the class of officers whom it had promoted. The service of six years in a rated ship could not be any sufficient test of the ability of an officer, because officers might have served within a week or month of that time; while, on the other hand, you might have an officer pushed on in the service by interest, who might have served the required period afloat, and still might not be so efficient a man as the other, who had not served quite so long a period. If their Lordships took into consideration the mode in which the Navy was governed, it was the very last profession in this country which ought to be regulated by Orders in Council of this description. The theory, indeed, was, that the administration of the promotions and appointments was ordered by a Board of Admiralty, who had sworn to execute the office of Lord High Admiral; the practice, however, was totally different; or, at all events, so far as the promotion of officers was concerned, it was not directed by a Board, for it was wholly in the bands of one individual exercising the office of the First Lord of the Admiralty. Now, under the Order in Council of 1851 it must follow that the First Lord was very frequently placed in a very painful position, as his conduct would often be open to most unjust imputation, let him do whatever he might, and be as just as he could. And to take an instance that was very likely to occur: suppose the First Lord was to take the list of post-captains in his hand, and that he found some relative of his placed eighth or tenth on it, of course it was open to him, if he were so disposed, in case any of those preceding that name on the list had not served the requisite number of years under the order of 1851, to take care that they were not permitted to serve, that his relative might be an admiral as soon as soon as possible. Such a state of things placed the profession in a very anomalous position—a to which no other profession had to submit, for everywhere else men could rise to the top of the tree by 6 the exercise of talent and ability. And he would remind their Lordships that the recent Order in Council was only a repetition of an Order issued in 1827, but which vas repealed on account of its being considered unjust to the service, and there was substituted for it that order which was repealed by the order now under consideration. What he would ask the Government to do was, to examine the bearings of that, Order in Council, and to restore to the service the arrangements then effected, instead of those existing at present, which produced no financial advantage to the nation. The order substituted for that of 1827 would effectually meet the case which he had described, and would prevent any governing power being placed under circumstances of great difficulty, and from having its motives represented in a spirit totally foreign to its feelings and intentions.
§ The EARL of ABERDEENsaid, the noble Earl had rightly stated that Her Majesty's present Government had not originated the Order in Council to which he had alluded, and had also given a reason for not bringing the subject under the attention of the Government of which he himself was a Member. He thought he recollected that at the time this Order in council was issued, the noble Earl, with some of his friends, had made some observations on the subject. He believed the matter had been considered by the Government at the tune, and had also been fully considered by Parliament. Now, he (the Earl of Aberdeen) knew the subject was one upon which much difference of opinion prevailed in the naval profession, and he confessed that he himself was not very competent to offer an opinion upon any practical view which the noble Earl had taken upon the working of the Order in council As, therefore, the noble Earl had done nothing more than call the attention of Her Majesty's Government to the subject, he would, without offering any opinion, or coming to any conclusion himself, simply engage that his right hon. Friend at the head of the Admiralty should give the subject his full consideration, and to had no doubt that ultimately a decision would be arrived at which would give some satisfaction to the noble Earl.
The EARL of HADDINGTONhad long been of opinion that the matter was one which needed consideration; but it was subject of very considerable difficulty indeed, and it was more easy to point out 7 defects in the existing system, than to devise a remedy for those defects. He doubted whether under any general orders or regulations whatever, cases of hardship might not occur. He knew an instance in which an officer who had served five years and a certain number of months in a rated ship, was then put upon the retired list. He had previously, at the desire of the Government of the day, continued for a considerable time to serve in a sloop, and, if he had been allowed to count that service in the sloop, he would not have been put upon the retired list. That, he thought, was a case of great hardship.
§ LORD COLCHESTERhoped the whole subject would receive the careful consideration of the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Admiralty.
§ EARL TALBOTwas very glad the subject was about to receive the attention of the Government. It was a very important question, deeply affecting the efficiency of the Navy, and he believed the Order in Council alluded to had given rise to great dissatisfaction in the service generally.