The MARQUESS of CLANRICARDErose to ask whether Her Majesty's Government could lay any information before the House respecting the state of affairs in Turkey, and the negotiation which it was said had been lately carried on between the Sublime Porte and certain of the great European Powers? He was certain that their Lordships felt a deep interest in everything that related to the welfare and independence of the Ottoman Empire, and that they shared in the great anxiety which had naturally been excited in the public mind of this country by the events which had taken place during the last few weeks with regard to the affairs of that empire. He should not attempt to enter into a detail of facts with which he was of course very imperfectly informed; but he felt it his duty to call their attention to certain events which had recently occurred. It would be in the recollection of their Lordships, that, not long since, a circumstance of a most serious nature occurred in the north-wes- 372 tern provinces of Turkey in Europe:—he alluded to the military operations which the Government of Turkey had conducted on a somewhat extensive scale in Montenegro On that occasion the Government of Austria thought right to interfere, and after military operations had proceeded to a certain length, Count Leiningen was sent by that Government on a special mission to Constantinople. Now, as to the precise object of that mission, or the nature and extent of the demands which Count Leiningen was instructed to make on the Turkish Government, or what was exactly the result of those demands, the public had never yet been correctly informed; but it was pretty well understood that the tone and temper in which these demands were enforced were by no means friendly or conciliatory, and that the Sultan had yielded to them. Shortly after this a fresh subject of anxiety arose in the claims set forward by the Government of France, for certain rights and privileges which were connected with the protection of what were called the Holy Places; but since that period the negotiations upon the subject, whatever they were, having terminated amicably, a much greater alarm had been excited in the minds of those by whom these subjects were watched with interest by the announcement of a special mission from St. Peters-burgh to Constantinople, with respect to the object of which the public were altogether uninformed—he alluded to the mission of Prince Menschikoff. Now, whatever the object of that mission might be, no man could doubt that it must be considered by this country as well as the rest of the world as of the utmost possible importance; and, the selection of a Minister of such high rank, and of such high official position, of itself showed that the objects to be carried out were highly appreciated by the Russian Government. The manner also in which this Ambassador conducted himself, according to the accounts which had reached this country, on his arrival at Constantinople, showed the existence of very strong feelings on the part of the Government he represented; for he ostentatiously avoided to show the courtesy generally shown by an Ambassador to the Minister of the Sovereign to whose Court he was accredited. He was justified in saying, therefore, that the object of this mission, whatever it might be, was one that must be highly important, not only to Turkey, but to the whole world. When he considered, 373 too, that the French Government thought it So much a matter of importance as to immediately send a fleet to the eastern waters; and, that our own Minister at Constantinople—if public report spoke truly—applied to the Admiral commanding in the Mediterranean to send Her Majesty's fleet to the same waters, for a similar object, whatever that might have been—when he considered these matters, he thought the importance of the event could not be lightly estimated. Now, it was impossible to view these matters, without being desirous of knowing what was the cause and what was the danger in respect of which such great apprehensions had been entertained. He might be answered—and he believed he should be truly answered—that the French Government had acted in haste, and that our Minister also had acted somewhat precipitately in the demand which be made on our Admiral of the Mediterranean fleet. He believed and hoped that the French Government was precipitate; but even so thinking he owned he could not see without great apprehensions any step taken by that Government which did not meet with the full consent and co-operation of the British Government; because he held that the danger to the Turkish empire was the danger which arose from the separate action of any one of the great European Powers with regard to the affairs of that empire; and that was the danger which pressed upon his mind in respect of the mission of Prince Menschikoff, whatever the object of that mission might be. If the Emperor of Russia were acting in concert with the other great Powers of Europe, for the accomplishment of some object which was common to them all, he (the Marquess of Clanricarde) had the fullest confidence that every engagement into which he entered he would fulfil, not only to the letter, but with the utmost good faith. But when he heard that this mission of Prince Menschikoff was sent to Constantinople for the promotion of objects concerning which Parliament and the public were kept in entire ignorance, he could not doubt—calling to remembrance the treaty of Unkiar 'Skelessi, and what had been the traditional policy of Russia towards Turkey, and which, however it might for a moment be Checked, was never for any long period abandoned or diverted from its end and aim—that these secret objects were such as France and England, by the international law of Europe, were interested in knowing. 374 He might be told that France and England had both of them protested against the treaty of Unkiar 'Skelessi, and declared that they would not allow that treaty to form any part of the international law of Europe; he had rejoiced at that declaration, and he trusted it would always be acted upon, for it was impossible that Turkey could, either with honour or safety to herself, abdicate her rights, or break off her old engagements. If, therefore, his noble Friend (the Earl of Clarendon) could tell him (the Marquess of Clanricarde) he knew what was the condition of this question, or what was the object of the mission of Prince Menschikoff to Constantinople, though he might think it right not to say another word about it at present, he should feel perfectly satisfied. But what he apprehended was, that no satisfactory answer could be given to the question he now felt it his duty to put to his noble Friend, because it appeared that the transactions were all conducted in secret, and it Was that very secrecy which made the subject so alarming. The general policy of this country and the Western States of Europe with regard to Turkey could not be altered. The interests of England in the Levant and the Turkish dominions Were too extensive and too important to be abandoned by the Government of this country. He spoke not merely of commercial interests, although these were immense, but he said that the honour of this country was involved in the maintenance of the integrity and independence of the Turkish empire, in a way which he was sure the people of this country, and the Parliament and Government of this country, could not fail correctly to estimate. France, too, had art equal interest with ourselves in maintaining the Ottoman empire in its integrity and independence, and in not suffering the Sultan to be despoiled of territory or degraded in his position by other Powers. Further, the peace of Europe demanded it. And it was a curious phase in the history of human affairs that the promotion of civilisation and of civil and religious liberty was involved in the maintenance of the empire of Turkey. He contended that these negotiations conducted in secrecy led to very great danger. The interests of France, and of England especially, were interests that could not be set aside; and if the period should arrive when an attempt was made at aggrandisement by any other great Power, at the expense of the independence 375 of the Sultan, he feared that Europe must he plunged into a general and terrible war. It was of the highest moment, therefore, that no negotiations should he permitted to go on under the idea that, by the signature of this or that secret treaty, or the over-reaching of any particular diplomatist, or the bringing of influences to hear upon a particular Minister of the Porte, or even upon the Grand Seignor himself, objects were to be secured which could not be attained by any Power without danger of despoiling the Sultan, and affecting the independence of the Turkish empire. He hoped that, in reference to these matters, the Governments of France and England would act cordially together. He had no reason as yet, and he hoped there might be none, to distrust the good feelings of the two Governments towards each other; and he had no reason, save those ominous appearances which the mission of Prince Menschikoff presented, to distrust Russia. But if the intentions of that Power were honest, let them be fairly and openly declared; and sure he was that any declaration from the Emperor of Russia would be strictly and fairly carried out. He confessed, however, that he was at a loss to conceive for what fair purpose the mission of Prince Menschikoff was intended. He was pot aware of any aggression on the part of Turkey; and he was not aware that she had been guilty of any breach of faith towards Russia. He wished to know whether Her Majesty's Government were in a position to furnish the House with information with regard to the events which had occurred at Constantinople; though he feared that full information could not be furnished by them; not on account of mere official discretion, but because full communication had not passed between them and the other Governments of Europe. Upon this matter, as well as upon every other, he desired to see Russia in full and fair communication with the Governments of France and England; but if there were danger to the Turkish empire, he hoped, whether France had been hasty in taking one step or another, or a French Minister at Constantinople had at any moment been a little irritable and impatient, he trusted that the Government of this country and the Government of France would act together in cordial co-operation and understanding; because if that co-operation and understanding were known and proclaimed, the peace of the world would be preserved. In conclusion he would ask whether Her Majesty's Go- 376 vernment could lay any information before the House respecting the state of affairs in Turkey, and the negotiations which it was said had been lately carried on between the Sublime Porte and certain great European Powers?
§ The EARL of CLARENDONMy Lords, my noble Friend has, to a certain extent, anticipated the answer that I shall give him, although I think the grounds upon which he has anticipated that that answer would not be as explanatory as he would desire are not correct. It is not on account of any want of official or cordial understanding between Her Majesty's Government and the other Governments of Europe that I must decline to give him all the information that he requires; but because some of those negotiations to which he has alluded are still pending; and although a portion of them may be said to be concluded, yet they have an intimate bearing on and relation to others which are not concluded; and I am sure your Lordships will agree with me when I say that a premature publication of them should not be made. But there is one subject upon which I may relieve some of the apprehensions which my noble Friend seems to entertain; and I can assure him of the entire concurrence of Her Majesty's Government in the views he has expressed respecting the maintenance of the independence and integrity of the Ottoman empire. Indeed, my Lords, I can fancy no greater calamity—none more likely to lead to a European war—none more certain to dislocate all those ties by which the great Powers of Europe are now connected together, than the dismemberment of the Turkish empire. Therefore I think that the British Government are bound alike by the principles of sound policy, of national interest, and of international law, to uphold the Turkish empire; and I am happy to inform your Lordships that, in consequence of recent communications with the different Governments, we have received from them the most cordial and unreserved assurances, that, with respect to Turkey, their views and their policy are in perfect harmony with our own. I therefore think, my Lords, that Turkey has nothing to fear from external aggression; nor do I think the dangers which threaten her from her internal weakness, great though they be, need threaten her destruction, provided that common ordinary prudence guides the councils of the Porte, and that a better policy and a more humane treatment are 377 adopted towards her Christian subjects; and it was with that object that Lord Stratford de Redcliffe was instructed to return to his post, and a special character was given to his mission, because it was thought that there was no man who, from his great abilities and long experience of Turkish affairs, was in the same favourable position of offering advice to the Porte, and there was none from whom the Porte Was so likely to receive such advice favourably. With respect to the other point to which my noble Friend has alluded—the war in Montenegro—certainly, as he says, Montenegro was the seat of warlike operations of an extensive character, and these warlike operations were not considered advisable by Her Majesty's late Government any more than by the present. Her Majesty's Chargé d'Affaires at Constantinople was, therefore, instructed by my noble Friend lately at the Foreign Office to represent to the Porte that that expedition was likely to be prejudicial to the Porte, and to create a drain upon its financial and military resources. The same instructions were repeated by my noble Friend, Lord J. Russell; but, nevertheless, the expedition was sent, a large army arrived in Montenegro, and was the subject of well-founded alarm to the Austrian Government. The Austrian Government fully admitted the dependence of Montenegro upon Turkey; but they contended that the virtual independence of Montenegro had for nearly a century been almost undisturbed and almost untouched, and they feared that the presence of a large Turkish army in the immediate neighbourhood of the Austrian territories and of the Christian subjects of Austria in those territories, might lead to great danger; the result was that the Austrian Government was obliged to have a considerable army on the frontiers to prevent the refugees from crossing over, and to guard against the excesses which might be expected to arise from a religious and fanatical war between Mussulmans and Christians. In consequence of this state of things the Austrian Government sent Prince Leiningen to Constantinople. It is true that that mission was somewhat of a peremptory character; and my noble Friend Lord John Russell communicated with the Austrian Government on the subject, and deprecated the use of any threatening language, or any language which could lead to a collision between the two countries. This was responded to in a friendly spirit fey the Austrian Government, who said 378 they had no desire to interrupt their relations with Turkey, still less to depart from their traditional policy of respect for the Ottoman empire. It had been stated that among the causes of complaint against the Austrian Government was some demand in reference to the refugees; he must say, that having fully inquired into all the circumstances, there was nothing in them to infringe any principle of international law, or that was inconsistent with the demand which one friendly Government might make upon another. With respect to the next point to which the noble Lord had alluded—namely, that after the embassy connected with the Montenegrin insurrection, another matter arose in connexion with the French Government. Now the fact was, that this question occurred first in the order of time. It appeared that the Turkish Government, having no concern in the matter, and being desirous of pleasing both parties, as it too often happened, failed in pleasing either. The Turkish Government, having made to the French Government certain concessions in respect of the Holy Shrines which appeared to be inconsistent with previous concessions made to Russia, the Emperor of Russia, knowing the great interest felt by the population in the East in respect to the Greek shrines, and regarding his own position in reference to that Church, determined upon sending Prince Menschikoff upon a special message in order to arrange this matter, and to place the question of the Holy Shrines upon a permanent footing. It was not for him to say that the Emperor of Russia was to be blamed for not making his intentions publicly known, or for not keeping the public informed in regard to his Envoy's proceedings. There were, certainly, considerable naval and military preparations concurrent with the arrival of Prince Menschikoff at Constantinople, but the extent of those, he considered, had been greatly exaggerated. There had been no disguise whatever on the part of the Emperor of Russia as to his intentions in sending his Ambassador, and he showed no hesitation in answering any question the Government of this country thought proper to put to him. He (the Earl of Clarendon) could only say that Her Majesty's Government felt precisely the same confidence as his noble Friend in the honour and integrity of the Emperor of Russia. When that Emperor gives his word as to what he is going to do, or not going to do, Her Majesty's Government would always 379 place reliance upon it. It appeared that within the last few days the public mind had been greatly excited by fresh and peremptory demands said to have been made by Prince Menschikoff upon the Turkish Government, and such as were calculated to excite alarm; but there, again, he had reason for supposing that the report was exaggerated. With respect to the fleet, it was well known that, after Prince Menschikoff arrival, Colonel Rose thought it right to advise Admiral Dundas to proceed with his fleet to the Dardanelles. The Admiral, however, did not think it expedient to comply with the advice, and the Government of this country considered that that gallant officer had excised a sound discretion in so acting. He must say that as far as Colonel Rose was concerned, as he had not got the information possessed by our Government, it was not very unnatural that he should feel some fear, and should participate in that alarm, which the arrival of Prince Menschikoff had excited; and he bad also reason to believe, although erroneously, that Admiral Dundas was actually on the point of cruising with the fleet towards the East, and, therefore, in making that request, he had merely forestalled the intentions of Admiral Dundas. The French Government on that occasion thought proper to send their fleet to the same quarter; but he could assure their Lordships that that matter did not originate in, nor had it led to any misunderstanding with, our Government, for between the French Government and the Government of this country there exists an entire concurrence of opinion in respect to the affairs of the East. Some exaggerated reports of recents events bad been circulated within the last four days, which were calculated to excite alarm; but their Lordships would be pleased to hear that Her Majesty's Government had recently received a despatch from Lord Stratford de Redcliffe, dated the day after his arrival at Constantinople, in which he gave them every reason to think that the views entertained by all parties upon the question were such as to ensure a satisfactory result. A telegraphic despatch was also received yesterday, which stated that up to the 14th inst. all was quiet at Constanninople. Having now given all the information which he thought it would be prudent to communicate, he could only assure their Lordships that he believed that as regarded Turkey, there was no danger whatsoever of the peace of Europe being disturbed, nor any prospect of the unanimity 380 which prevailed between this country and the other great Powers of Europe, as to the necessity of maintaining the integrity and independence of the Ottoman empire, being interrupted.
§ LORD BEAUMONTsaid, the statement of the noble Earl was reassuring, as far as the now pending question between Russia and Turkey was concerned; for he understood the noble Earl to state that such positive assurances had been given by the Emperor to this country on the subject of the extraordinary mission of Prince Menschikoff, that it was impossible, without breaking his word of honour, for the Emperor to make any extravagant demand on Turkey. He (Lord Beaumont) would not doubt the plighted word of the Emperor Nicholas, although he admitted, that it was the avowed policy of our own Government which chiefly filled him with confidence that the interests of Turkey were perfectly safe. But there was a point touched on by the noble Earl on which, he thought, they ought to have further information and with regard to which he begged to differ from him, namely, when he spoke of Austria not having violated any international law in what she had done respecting Montenegro. He alluded not to what was passing, but what was passed. If the affair of the interference of the Austrian Government were concluded, he thought they were entitled to have the papers laid on the table of the House. They were entitled to know what was the result, if any ports which had been open to us were closed, and whether any country had assumed an independence which it did not possess before. How stood the case of Montenegro? The people of Montenegro were the subjects of the Porte, and they occupied themselves in robbing and murdering their fellow-subjects. The Sultan exercised his undoubted authority to suppress these infamous proceedings; and then Austria, a neighbouring and friendly Power, interfered to prevent him. If international law admitted such proceedings, we should have been justified in interfering in behalf of the Hungarians, and France would have had a right to interfere recently in behalf of the Milanese. He knew it was of importance to Austria that no other foot should tread those shores, nor could she shut her eyes to the risk of another and more formidable Power meddling in the quarrel. She knew that the Vladika might appeal to Petersburgh, and it was perhaps on that account she interfered. 381 He admitted that the result was not so bad as that which might have been expected from an appeal to Russia; but the bare possibility that a much greater evil had been prevented by the interference with the Turkish Government which had taken place, did not justify that interference. He wished to ask the noble Lord if he had any objection to lay upon the table any information in his power with regard to the Austrian embassy to the Porte?
§ The EARL of CLARENDONcould not at present say whether it would be in his power to lay any papers of the kind referred to upon their Lordships' table, but he would do so if it were practicable, and conld be done without inconvenience to the public service. He adhered to the opinion he had given that the Austrian Government had infringed no international law, for the terms in which the representations of the Austrian Minister were made fully bore him out. Austria did not impugn or deny any of the treaties that settled the sovereignty of Turkey over Montenegro, nor did Austria deny or dispute the authority of the Turkish Government to punish the outrages in question; but the Austrian Government took the same view as was taken by the late and present Government of this country, and by the Government of France, as to the evils of sending so large a Mussulman force into the neighbourhood of an excitable Christian population; and they only asked that the army should be withdrawn, and that the status quo should be restored as soon as the evildoers had been punished, and security taken against a repetition of the outrages complained of.
§ LORD BEAUMONTsaid, he felt much more satisfied after the explanation of the noble Earl.