Lords Sitting of 26 November 1852

MINUTES.
Took the Oaths.—The Lord Carleton.

THE AMERICAN FISHERIES.
LORD WHARNCLIFFEsaid, that he rose to put a question to the noble Earl the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on a matter of great importance to a great number of Her Majesty's subjects in a distant part of Her dominions, and also to the inhabitants of a great State in friendly relations with us. The matter to which he referred was the Fisheries on the coast of our North American colonies. Their Lordships would probably have it in their recollection that in the month of July last intelligence reached this country that the people of the United States, and more especially a certain portion of them in the Eastern States, had been greatly excited by the publication of a letter from Mr. Webster, the then Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to the American Government, announcing that new instructions had been sent by the British Government to its officers in the Colonies to enforce the regulations of the treaty between the two countries as to the fisheries on the coasts of our North American Colonies, and informing them that this Government intended to put a new construction on that treaty, and warning such of the population of the United States as were interested in those fisheries, to beware of the penalties following on any infraction of the treaty, and promising to take the whole subject into the consideration of the United States Government. In answer to that letter, nothing, that he knew of had yet appeared giving a satisfactory explanation of the state of the case, or of the motives which had induced the American Secretary of State to write and publish such a letter. There was published in the American papers shortly afterwards a paper purporting to have been received by our Minister at Washington, Mr. Crampton, and stating that there had never been any intention on the part of the British Government to put a new construction on the treaty. That was the only document, he believed, which had ap-
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peared since the publication of Mr. Webster's letter at all calculated to throw any light upon the subject. Now he believed that that letter truly represented the real state of the case; and if that were so, it was difficult to comprehend how it happened that the Foreign Secretary of the United States should be so misled as to suppose that such an intention as that which he announced existed on the part of the British Government. He knew but of two suppositions which could by possibility explain the circumstance. The first was, that some communication to the Government of the United States was couched in such terms as conveyed that impression to them; and the other was, that no communication whatever had been made by this Government to that of the United States—no intimation on the subject, such as was required by the ordinary rules of courtesy observed in diplomatic transactions, and that the United States were left to put their own construction on the acts of the British Government. Which of these two suppositions was right he knew not; but it was not unfair to suppose that the noble Earl opposite, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, would be not only ready, but even anxious, to give an explanation on this subject which would be satisfactory not only to their Lordships and the country, and our Colonies, but also to the American fishermen, who were also deeply interested in the issue of this question. There was another matter connected with this question, which, in his opinion, entitled him to ask it. Rumours were current, and especially in the United States and in the Canadas, that in connexion with this subject of the fisheries, it was proposed to make fresh arrangements, by negotiations now pending, to improve the commercial relations between our North American Colonies and the United States. Having no documents before him, he could only speak of these statements as rumour, but he knew that they formed part of the current opinion on both sides of the Canadian border. That was, in his opinion, an additional reason for asking the noble Earl opposite to communicate to the House and to the country the present condition of these transactions. The question which he now wished to ask was information as to this point—whether the correspondence and negotiations between the two Governments, which had been going on for some time past, on the subject of the fisheries on the coast of our North American Colonies,

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were now brought to a conclusion; and, if so, whether he would consent to lay the papers connected with them at once on the table; or, if not at present, whether he would have any objection to lay them upon the table upon a Motion made to that effect?
The EARL of MALMESBURYsaid, that the noble Earl who had just sat down had in no way exaggerated the importance of the question to which he had been referring—a question which during the last five months had occupied the attention of Her Majesty's Government as much as it deserved. The noble Baron had referred to the letter of the late Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in the United States, Mr. Webster, complaining of the conduct of Her Majesty's Government, when that Government issued orders for the employment of a new description of vessels, and also of a greater number of vessels, in protecting our North American fisheries. The noble Baron had attempted to account for the publication of that letter. He supposed that it might perhaps have been published because the orders of the British Government to its colonial officers were couched in such terms as were not pleasing to the United States, or from another reason—namely, in consequence of Mr. Webster having supposed that Her Majesty's Government intended to put a new construction on the treaty of 1818. Now he said, on behalf of Her Majesty's Government, that it had written to its own officers in Canada and elsewhere, and also to the officers of the United States, and that it had not used any language to any of them which it was not fitting to employ on such occasions. He would add, also, that Her Majesty's Government had placed no new construction on the treaty—that it had asserted no new claim whatever for itself on the American Government—that it had made no addition to the material force already on the station—that it was more a police regulation than anything else. A new and more useful sort of vessel was employed, and in greater numbers than before—the number of cannon was even diminished—and nothing had been done calculated to excite the jealousy of the American Government. He (the Earl of Malmesbury) knew nothing of the source of the discontent prevalent in the United States to which the noble Baron had referred; but the noble Lord who had just sat down and who had been for some time a resident in the United States, and who
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knew the influence which periodical events exercised in those localities, might perhaps be able to account for the appearance at that time of a correspondence which at another period might never have seen the light. He asserted that Her Majesty's Government were not to blame for anything which had occurred either on this or on the other side of the Atlantic. With respect to the notice to be given to the Government of the United States, he had only to assure the House that notice was given to it as soon as the change of our naval arrangements was made; not that he believed that it was necessary for us to give any notice at all, save on account of the usual diplomatic courtesy. If any person thought that, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, he should have given that notice earlier, or that our new arrangements should have been postponed until the American Government had had a longer notice of them, that was no compliment to the American Government, as it presupposed that it was privy to the acts of aggression on our shores, which some American subjects had been long in the habit of perpetrating. As to the present state of the negotiations of which these events had been recently the cause between the two countries, he was obliged to tell their Lordships that they were in such a state that he must, though with regret, refuse to lay the papers regarding them on the table. He might even say that the negotiations were only just begun. Before the lamented death of Mr. Webster, he had entertained the proposal of Her Majesty's Government, and had agreed to negotiate on a large and wide basis, including not only all the disputed points regarding the fisheries on the coasts of our North American Colonies, but also the trade between the United States on the one hand, and Canada and our other Colonies on the other. He gladly admitted that from the moment of commencing the negotiations, Mr. Webster had acted in a true principle of conciliation, and that he had expressed to our Minister, Mr. Crampton, that it was his most anxious desire that the trade between the two countries should be carried on upon a greater principle of freedom, and that all possible causes of dispute should be removed between two such great nations. On all accounts Her Majesty's Government regretted the death of that great statesman; but more especially on account of the particular period at which

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it occurred, for it had interrupted the negotiations which were commenced; and at that moment he had no official information of any successor having been appointed to his (Mr. Webster's) office. He was happy to inform their Lordships that Her Majesty's Government had received the same assurances of goodwill from the President, Mr. Fillmore, and the same expression of his anxious desire that the question should be settled, not on a narrow footing, but on a broad field. They had been met in the same spirit by Commodore Perry, who had been sent by his Government to watch over the property and to promote the interests of the American fishermen, who were exercising their rights, not near our coasts, but around our shores. In fact, from the American Government, with the exception of the first letter, which was written by Mr. Webster in a moment of excitement, when he was suffering from the illness which terminated in his death, they had had nothing but friendly assurances. There had not been a single word said by any official personage in the United States which did not give Her Majesty's Government sanguine hopes that these negotiations would be brought to a satisfactory conclusion, and that every cause of dispute between the two countries would be amicably settled. When that period arrived, it would afford the greatest satisfaction to him to lay on the table of the House the papers which the noble Baron had asked for.
House adjourned to Monday next.